COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Impacts and Flow-on Effects for MLF Neran
+15

Preface

I want to begin this post by saying this is not a gripe about the map nor a complaint to get the map and resources changed. What I have is a nuanced set of questions, of which the genesis arises from resource distribution on the map. I am hoping is not simply dismissed out of hand, or hijacked by the usual faces.

My concerns herein are based on what information I understand about tribes, biomes, and technologies. If I am wrong about something, that's cool, I'm sure the Devs will sort me out and put me on the correct path.

So please, I am not interested in other player's theorycrafting or post-fact justification for why things are the way things are. I have legitimate and serious questions which only the Devs can actually address in full, so please let them do such without the intrusion of player opinions or people arguing for why things should be this way or that.

My Observation on Maps - Luna, Alesia

For the Duchy of Midvalley, stone and minerals are a resource in only 5 counties, and both of these resources are available in the same 5 counties; neither being abundant. Within these 5 counties there are 33 potential settlements, and not a single one of these currently has access to stone, minerals, or a miner within the top professions.

My Observation on Neran

Enough has been said about the Neran description so far in questions about stone and minerals, so I won't go into that and re-prosecute that information. I think it's firmly in the minds of the Devs already.

What I do want to raise however are the screenshots we have seen thus far of what appears to be Neran settlements and cities within what I assume to be the MLF or early equivalent thereof. Perusing through the CoE's screenshot gallery is filled with beautiful image after beautiful image of stone structures and walls, and this is what I think the vast majority of us have been under the impression that a well-developed Neran city in the MLF looks like.

The SbS Response on MLF Questions

I appreciate that Sniperhunter has taken the time and attempted to answer questions and concerns around the distribution of resources on the map; also that it was discussed by Vye and Snipe during the latest Q&A. Unfortunately, I don't think the answer provided addresses the core of the problem.

The problem is not only that there appears to be minimal stone and minerals and none of it available readily. The problem is that the Neran technology appears to heavily revolve around stone and minerals and there appears to be minimal stone and minerals within the MLF.

Clearly, if there's not a single mine in the entire duchy and a rather limited supply of stone, then it's highly implausible to have castles, big stone walls, or even much in the way of metal armour in the MLF. These factors lead us to a range of questions regarding the Neran in the MLF and the dev's intent for these elements.

My Questions Resulting From These Observations

  1. Will the starting technologies for Neran rely heavily upon stone and metal? If so, what are the impacts on a duchy if these resources are hard to come by within a starting biome for a starting tribe?

    I understand the deep-rooted nature of asymmetry in resources and land within the game; particularly its need to drive trade and conflict. However, resource differences appear to have been linked explicitly with tribes. Tribes appear to use different resources and technologies to find equivalent or alternative ways of solving problems, such as different resources and styles of architecture, different styles and types of armor. There are many ways to skin a cat, and I acknowledge that we can derive the same outcome in the game using different resources and technologies.

    However, if all Nerans are starting out with the same technologies, then this creates an additional imbalance to the game's asymmetry. One I view as potentially putting me at a significant disadvantage if I can't use the foundational technology of my tribe right out the gate due to limited resources required to utilise it.

  2. Will some of the starting technologies be based on tribe or based on the resources within the starting biome? eg if stone is rare in the biome, will the inhabitants have learned to make the equivalent of stone walls, but with wood?

    Where starting tech is based around biome rather than tribe, then we can see equivalents emerge and a starting balance for the game. While things don't need to be equal, an underlying assumption I'm making is that SbS isn't going to take asymmetry in kingdoms/biomes/tribes to the point where starting conditions and techs in one place set a given duchy or kingdom far behind another.

    Where neighbors have evolved over hundreds of years right next to each other, we'd expect to see checks and balances in their respective technologies. We see this with the usual historical dialectic of tech and counter-tech. If we see some consideration of this within the game mechanics, then we obviously avoid an imbalance right out the gate, and we Nerans in the MLF can breath easier.

  3. If SbS has not quite considered these impacts and effects to date, can you provide us with a strategy you will adopt to address these issues for the players?

    As I said above, I understand resource variation and asymmetry, but I also paid the same amount of money as the duke across the border. I expect from that, to be given a roughly equivalent opportunity to succeed or fail within the game.

    At the crux of all of this, my community wants to see SbS is on top of this seeming disparity, and that it's all going to be managed fairly. I would really hate for my group of players who are pouring their heart and wallets into this game, to find out at Expo that we're at a real disadvantage due to a dev oversight.

I appreciate your time and answers, SbS.


Lord Maximillian Seele, Duke of Aravier

8/23/2019 9:05:35 AM #1
+5

I agree 100%


8/23/2019 9:12:14 AM #2
-3

feel free to trade for the stone ill give you a hefty bulk discount


Friend Code: 6DEF22

8/23/2019 10:04:17 AM #3
+4

This is something I was wondering, but didn't see covered, actually, that ties into exactly this topic.

If a resource isn't shown on the map now does it mean it's not present at all? Or, rather, is it not a resource yet discovered/built to be mined/harvested/etc by the county itself?

IE, you can't mine gold without a mine. If there's no mines built might it be there yet undiscovered still?


Friend Code - 93294C

8/23/2019 3:21:23 PM #4
+0

Posted By Perspicacity at 04:04 AM - Fri Aug 23 2019

This is something I was wondering, but didn't see covered, actually, that ties into exactly this topic.

If a resource isn't shown on the map now does it mean it's not present at all? Or, rather, is it not a resource yet discovered/built to be mined/harvested/etc by the county itself?

IE, you can't mine gold without a mine. If there's no mines built might it be there yet undiscovered still?

From my understand and how SbS has explained it, currently shown resources are those that are readily available and currently exploited. Therefore it could be possible that given new technologies and natural resources discoveries, new resources could be found.

Again this is just from my own understanding.


Lord Alix Vauchard, Count of Aveline

8/23/2019 5:36:31 PM #5
+2

Posted By Vauchard at 08:21 AM - Fri Aug 23 2019

Posted By Perspicacity at 04:04 AM - Fri Aug 23 2019

This is something I was wondering, but didn't see covered, actually, that ties into exactly this topic.

If a resource isn't shown on the map now does it mean it's not present at all? Or, rather, is it not a resource yet discovered/built to be mined/harvested/etc by the county itself?

IE, you can't mine gold without a mine. If there's no mines built might it be there yet undiscovered still?

From my understand and how SbS has explained it, currently shown resources are those that are readily available and currently exploited. Therefore it could be possible that given new technologies and natural resources discoveries, new resources could be found.

Again this is just from my own understanding.

It has not been communicated with 100% clarity. I understood it from the dev video that just present does not mean exploited just that it potentially could be exploited. To further elaborate Snipehunter's comments is that just because it shows as Present and Present means accessible does not mean it is worthy of exploitation. Examples he gave was the quality was terrible and would not result in good production or it was extremely difficult to access, in the case of stone perhaps 20 feet below overburden.

As a result, based on the dev video, it would be safe to say what little stone and ore is within MLF is either incredibly difficult to access or is sub-par in quality. As a result, Seele's questions are incredibly important and I hope will be answered by the Devs before the selection windows are communicated.

8/28/2019 12:37:08 PM #6
+1

Bump.


Lord Maximillian Seele, Duke of Aravier

8/28/2019 12:49:10 PM #7
+0

We have a similair problem in Selene in the broadleaf forests. almost no minerals or stone. In one duchy even none on duchy level.

But as far as i understanded its still possible that the resources are there but just not discovered (not visible on county level) or not exploited (visible on county but not on settlement). Mostly because that duchy has several big mountainranges, if there isnt stone there what are those made of? The bones of the expelled brudvir?


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