COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Taverns as a social space

Taverns, in most MMOs, have failed to capture the iconic role we often see in pen and paper RPGs, books and movies. Where would Frodo be if not for the Prancing Pony? Where would America's own Revolution be without the Green Dragon? Such an important setting has largely been ignored in almost all modern MMOs.

SWG had a good idea, where your health bars recovered faster in a bar, and players could perform music, dance and help other characters recover faster. I think they even gave buffs in doing so.

This is what I propose CoE does with their Taverns and Bars. It's one thing to create bars and hope people will come to socialize, but let's be honest, most people won't do that. Unless they are RPing, most people will want to spend their game time fulfilling a task or trying to survive. Caspian mentioned that our food resource will fill up once we make it in town, why not make it fill up in a tavern. Make us order food. Provide buffs, longer sated duration and other benefits with said food. Have NPC or PC patrons telling stories - these stories may lead to a hint in a quest somewhere, or tell about the lore of the world that players can passively follow while recovering.

Have music playing, a feature Caspian hinted at, have that music also give an in game benefit. A buff, a boost to recovery time, an experience boost to a skills.

Putting a tangible, in-game buff to these features will encourage players to develop them as more than a hobby. it will encourage an economical benefit too. Players will tip and reward musicians for their effort. Player chefs will be sought after by Inns to provide the best food, with the best benefits, for the most money.

How would such a detailed feature help the average player (besides the food buffs)? It would create a space that players naturally gravitate to. Adventurers just out from the wild will go there to eat and recover, farmers from the field will go to the inn to rest and eat and recover stamina so they can farm more, merchants will go to the inn to barter or trade or to hear of news from neighboring settlements, pick pockets would go and take advantage of the crowd to ply their trade. Even noblemen or land owners would go to mingle with the people or to spread word about their fiefdom.

Without a proper social space players just fill global chat with inane babble, or hang outside the bank mingling and standing around. Without an in-game benefit to inns or taverns, I fear the same will happen in CoE and taverns will be nothing more than meeting spots for RPers (which is ok, I'm an RPer myself). Putting in a tanglible in-game reward for mingling at a bar or social space will be good for the game and good for the community.

I want your thoughts on this. How would you like to see the town tavern handled? Will you plan on operating a player run inn or tavern? What features would you add or get rid of? What has worked in other games?


4/27/2016 3:22:37 PM #1

It has been said that you do not need to drink or eat while in a tavern or inn for just the reasons you mentioned.


4/27/2016 3:27:48 PM #2

If I'm remembering correctly, Star Wars Galaxies had the exact game mechanic you propose in your post and it was extremely successful in producing a social setting in cantinas (sci-fi taverns).

Players had the ability to follow a career in entertainment, as dancers or musicians. If other players "watched" or "listened" to the entertainment for a specific time period, they would gain a buff for a few hours and heal any wounds that they had accumulated.

Entertainers could buff players wherever they were by performing for them, but to heal certain types of wounds that all combatants would inevitably pick up, players had to enjoy the provided entertainment in cantinas or within temporary campsites placed in the wild by Rangers (another type of player profession).

This generated some important points that should be noted as they made the game so amazing to play:

  • Players actually used cantinas to heal their wounds, and ended up socialising with others while they were waiting for this to happen, creating an important social setting within cantinas.
  • Entertainers could actually earn a decent amount of money through tips from players who benefitted from their entertainment. Therefore it was a potentially lucrative in-game career for non-combatants.
  • Entertainers were not limited to sticking around in cantinas. They could provide buffs on the go and heal wounds in Ranger campsites and so could travel and even become involved in combat if they had gained any combat experience on the side. (I'd imagine a sword-wielding Bard travelling with a company of combatants in CoE).
  • Using campsites which could only be placed by Rangers meant that there was a need for both professions (as well as others) whilst on the move. Therefore something important was achieved via a crossover of skills from different professions. This made every profession feel vital.

Transferring this over to a CoE setting, there is no reason something like this couldn't be applied to bards and chefs in taverns (should they end up becoming playable professions), as well as medical professionals in clinics and hospitals.


4/27/2016 4:48:43 PM #3

I think taverns providing accelerated rest, health recovery, and possible stat benefits from food /drink found there would greatly enhance the socialization factor. With the recent direction of MMO's (pantheon in particular) towards forced grouping to nurture socialization, I think the OP is onto something great here.


4/27/2016 4:54:42 PM #4

Your food resources won't automatically fill up in town, it's just that you won't become incapacitated from not eating like you would in the wilds, but your hunger will still rise the longer you go without eating. At least, that's the last information that I heard on the subject. So, players will still have to go to places like taverns to get food and drink.


4/27/2016 5:25:17 PM #5

Hey folks,

Thanks for your questions regarding taverns. This is already a system we have planned and have talked about in IRC.

Survival has three vitality related metrics: vitality itself, Hunger, and Thirst.

When you're out in the wild your Vitality naturally decreases over time at a rate determined by your Stamina attribute as well as the activities you're performing.

Additionally, while you're out in the wild your Hunger and Thirst will increase. As it does, your vitality begins dropping faster. Eventually your Vitality will drop to 0 and you will pass out (incapacitated) from fatigue. Upon waking your Vitality will have risen a bit after getting some rest, but your Hunger and Thirst grow without bounds until eventually you will die (coup de graced) from Hunger or Thirst.

Now, when you're within the comfort of a Hamlet, Village, etc... there are modifiers on the rate of change for those three metrics.

In general, when in town your Vitality does not drop as long as there's a place to rest in the village. This could be your house, a room you rent, etc... However, while in town your Hunger and Thirst will continue to increase. It will not increase to the point of killing you, but it will increase to an absurdly high level.

When you walk into a tavern, even if you don't explicitly order any food, as long as the Tavern has supplies your Vitality will begin to increase from where it was, and your Hunger and Thirst stop increasing. This means that the best way to stay "neutral" and to get a slight reprieve is to visit a food/entertainment establishment.

If you purchase/eat explicitly, your Vitality increases at an accelerated rate and your Hunger and Thirst begin to drop.

Having bards in the tavern, playing card/dice games, etc.. all serve to increase the rate of Vitality recovery, and the quality of the food you consume will dramatically increase the rate of Hunger/Thirst recovery.

Vwalla! Enjoy your stay at the pub!


4/27/2016 5:39:53 PM #6

I will say that I am looking forward to running a Tavern in this game world, and with player contracts being a thing I'm thinking it could have a bulletin board for quests and wanted posters and what not... I'm picturing great things!


4/27/2016 5:41:07 PM #7

That's awesome. That means there is definitely a game-play reason for virtually everyone in town to want to passively hang out in the tavern and inadvertently will socialize.

Very cool solution mixing gamer reasons with in-game roleplay to facilitate socialization.

4/27/2016 6:35:02 PM #8

This makes me a VERY happy panda.


4/27/2016 6:44:38 PM #9

Sobrierty is a thing, you can get drunk.


4/27/2016 6:57:15 PM #10

I for one hope that there will be an Elyrian "Eolian" (Kingkiller Chronicles) - basically musicians come to this tavern and play a fee to play their music, in hopes of getting sponsors/high ranking noble patrons that pay their fees (whether that's paying for their housing, schooling, food, and everything in between) in return for the musician's services (which I assume is playing at court or at their hosted events, etc).

4/27/2016 7:01:07 PM #11

This is great. Ever thought about adding social features while in taverns? Maybe when you enter a food/entertainment establishment additional options unlock.

4/27/2016 7:13:49 PM #12

Just had an image of troupes of travelling entertainers visiting taverns throughout the land...


4/27/2016 7:18:57 PM #13

The way SWG did this stuff was indeed great and I'm delighted to hear that CoE has a system which, while different, will still have the same sort of effect. Even when SWG was in its dying days, cantinas were still great places to be. That says a lot about the mechanic.


FWIW, I was KS Backer #21 and wanted nothing but the best for this game.

4/27/2016 7:53:17 PM #14

I'd seen Caspian's hints about tavern mechanics when I first hopped on the forums here which was what got me excited to run one (or you know, tons of them). Though I never got to play Star Wars Galaxies, their cantinas and a lot of the peripheral classes like doctors and bards seemed like a lot of fun. When I play things like D&D I love to play the quirky support roles more than I do pure combat so CoE's focus on that style of gameplay was the hook that reeled me in.

<3 Soulbound.


4/27/2016 9:04:30 PM #15

I can't wait. The mechanics involved an how they are intertwined should be awesome. Capturing a part of the world almost every game has failed to truly capture will be awesome and I am looking forward to knocking back some brews after a long day.