26 September

What's in store for you...

By Caspian

Hey Everyone!

Welcome to the CoE Weekly Update for the week of September 19th. We don't have any fancy artwork to share this week, and minimal screenshots, however we do have an update full of information.

In preparation for our online store opening October 3rd, as well as to re-iterate some of the topics we discussed in previous updates, the focus of this week will once again be predominantly about the upcoming store release.

That said, there was a good deal of discussion last week in response to some information we shared on our official Discord Server. So, I wanted to spend at least a little time during this update talking again about the responsibilities, commitments, and benefits of being a member of the aristocracy and nobility. That includes a bit of information I hinted to this week about the Sedecim, a special festival held every 16 in-game years.

But before we get to that, let's talk about the online store!

The new storefront
Figure 1 - The new storefront

Haven't you raised all the money you need?

So, back in May we launched a Kickstarter to raise $900,000. That money continues to be used as our seed funding for the development of Chronicles of Elyria. For those unfamiliar with a seed round, that's when you raise enough money to put together a prototype for further investment rounds, such as a Series A.

To entrepreneurs, and to those outside the gaming industry, a strategy of using the money earned in each round of funding to reach the next one is perfectly normal. But in games, especially with crowdfunding, it can make backers nervous to hear that a game isn't fully funded yet. Heck, it makes us a little nervous.

That being said, the $900,000 we raised during Kickstarter isn't enough to finish Chronicles of Elyria. The reality is that Soulbound Studios is going to require another $2 Million more than that to get anywhere near completion. And with server hosting fees, QA work, etc., it would really be better if that was up around $3M instead.


Edit: After looking at comments on here and Kickstarter it appears as though some people are interpreting this Update as us coming back requesting more money from the community. That's not the case. This post wasn't meant as a request for more money. It was just explaining that in our effort to raise the additional money required to complete CoE, having additional funds through our online store is a nice addition. It relieves stress, and minimizes the amount we need to get from external investors.

We've been very transparent from the beginning that $900k was all we needed from Kickstarter to get the game done, not that it's all we'd needed. We have, from the very beginning, planned on pursuing additional methods of funding.

For context, here's a Q&A from a Reddit IAmA we did during the Kickstarter, and I believe posted on Kickstarter as well:

Q. How can you possibly make an MMO with only $900k USD?

A. - We understand it will take more than $900K to accomplish all of our goals. That is merely all we need from Kickstarter to help us out. We've invested $500K of our own money & have another $500K committed from friends & family. Plus we'll look for investors for the remaining amount needed.


That said, while we do have strategies in place to help raise the additional money, any funds we raise through online pledges helps reduce that amount and also provides a bit of cushion between now and our next funding round.

It likely doesn't surprise anyone, but between employee salaries, contract fees, medical/dental insurance, license fees, software purchases, rent, other insurances, internet fees, hosting fees, computers and furniture, and taxes, the money won't last forever. As the CEO it's my job to pay close attention to our burn-down and make sure we've got enough runway to reach our next funding goal. With that in mind, every dollar pledged in our online store takes away some of the stress. So if you haven't pledged already, or have but are looking to upgrade, now's the time. Speaking of upgrades...

Upgrades & Add-ons

While we didn't touch on it in our previous store update, all Kickstarter backers will have the opportunity to upgrade their previous pledges when the online store opens. If you've bound your Kickstarter account to your CoE account, you'll see in the online store that all backing tiers at or below your current tier are unavailable. Furthermore, all backing tiers above your current tier will be discounted by the amount of your previous pledge tier.

For example, if you previously backed at the Baron Tier ($250 USD), when you navigate to the online store you'll find that the Astronomer tier is listed at $100 USD, and the Count/Countess Tier is listed at $250 USD. That's the previous price of those two tiers, minus the $250 you'd already pledged.

Also, while Kickstarter allows for over-pledging your backing tier to purchase add-ons, it doesn't actually provide a way to specify which add-ons you want to buy. However, in the CoE online store, on the checkout page, you'll see listed all available add-ons, including the ability to purchase IP directly.

Another thing you'll note is that if you previously pledged above your backing tier, that'll show up as available credit in the online store. You can use that credit however you like.

Let's say you previously bought the $50 Early Bird Patron tier, but pledged a total of $75 with the intent to also buy $25 worth of Influence Points. When you go to the shopping cart page you'll see the $25 IP tier available to add-on to your cart. Once you do, it'll add $25 to your total, however the previous $25 credit will also be there, reducing the total charge price back to $0.00.

Alternatively, let's take the same scenario, but instead of going directly to the cart to buy the add-on, you instead decide to upgrade from your previous Early Bird Patron pledge to the $75 Beastmaster Pledge. In the store that'll be listed as $25 ($75 - $50), however when you go to the checkout the same $25 credit will be applied and you'll be able to upgrade for free.

Credits, as with everything from the previous Kickstarter, are now non-refundable, however you can use your credits however you like, in a single trip to the online store, or multiple.

On a final note, if you purchased a tier previously with the $25 or $50 merchandise credit, that too will show up as a Credit in the Online Store. Use that now, or save for when we have our physical merchandise listed. The choice is yours.

Pick your add-ons after you
Figure 2 - Pick your add-ons after you've selected your package

Layaway

Another thing I wanted to talk about was the topic of layaway. This is one of those questions we get asked quite frequently and wanted to provide a definitive answer. The answer is yes; we provide a layaway option! Actually, we provide two different layaway options. Which layaway option you use depends on what it is you're wanting to layaway for.

In-Game Items: If you're wanting to save up for the purchase of in-game items, etc., your best bet is to simply buy Influence Points (IP). In most circumstances, IP can be purchased at an exchange rate of 10 IP per $1 USD. However, during the month of October (and later as we dictate), you'll have the opportunity to purchase IP on a sliding scale. The scale in October is as follows:

  • $10 - 100 Influence Points
  • $25 - 275 Influence Points (+25 bonus IP)
  • $35 - 400 Influence Points (+50 bonus IP)
  • $50 - 600 Influence Points (+100 bonus IP)
  • $75 - 925 Influence Points (+175 bonus IP)
  • $100 - 1250 Influence Points (+250 bonus IP)

That all said, as I'll explain a bit later, it's not possible to use IP purchased from the online store to purchase backing/pledge tiers. That leads to the second form of layaway.

Pledge Packages: If what you're saving up for is a pledge/backing tier, your best bet is instead to use the credit/over-payment option on the checkout page. Like the overpayments people made during the Kickstarter, over-payment in the store will result in a credit showing up on your account the next time you visit the store. This credit can then be applied to any package upgrades you might want to make. Note, credit can still be used for anything. So if you change your mind later and decide to convert all your credit into IP or something else, you still can.

Gifting

Along the lines of the layaway question, another topic that frequently comes up is the question of gifting. The short answer to this is yes, at some point after November 1st we will create a way for people to gift items, backing tiers, and IP purchases to other members of the community. However, we won't be providing that option during the month of October.

Villager / Guild Member Tokens

In many recent Kickstarter campaigns, the project owners created a way for a single individual to fund an entire guild. However, we didn't want to put the full burden of purchasing and investing in a guild upon a single individual. Not only is it expensive, but a lot of people don’t want to send money to some guild leader over the internet.

For this reason, we introduced the Villager / Guild Tokens. The idea was that each community member could optionally, at their discretion, purchase a single Guild and Villager token to be traded to a single Guild or Aristocrat.

In this way, a settlement or guild could grow proportionately to the number of contributing members it had. Unfortunately, we think some people may have misunderstood and either over-pledged during the Kickstarter as a way to buy multiple Villager / Guild member tokens, or under-pledged when they would really have liked to contribute to their settlement or guild.

If you were one of the people who over-pledged, don't worry about it. Wait until we open up gifting and instead use your credit to buy parcels of land, etc. and send it to your guild leader.

And if, now understanding how the villager / guild tokens are meant to be used, you wish to purchase one, you can do so as an add-on when the store opens on October 3rd.

Figure 3 - Need more info, we got you covered
Figure 3 - Need more info, we got you covered

IP Policies

Ok, while we're in the giving mood, let's take a break really quick and talk about a few unpleasant topics.

First, and this has always been true but perhaps not communicated effectively, is that purchased IP is intended for buying in-game items, not backing tiers.

While nobody has expressed any desire to do so, and nobody seems to have had this plan previously, the fact that IP was being sold at a sliding scale meant it would have been theoretically possible to buy IP at a discounted rate, and then turn right around and buy a backing tier at up to a 25% discount.

As an example, the Baron tier is priced at $250.00 USD. The intention was that people spend that money to pledge for that tier, and then buy/earn IP which could be used for purchasing additional in-game items to help build out their settlement.

That being said, the savvy person might have noticed that for just $200 USD you could buy 2,500 IP (valued at $250 USD). This would have effectively allowed you to, once the IP store opened, purchase the Baron tier for just $200 rather than $250.

To re-iterate, IP purchased in the online store can only be used for in-game items. Not physical items, and not pledge packages.

And again, nobody has expressed an intention to do this, we just wanted to make sure it was clear. If you previously over-payed in the interest of buying IP to then purchase a backing tier at a discount, keep in mind that your credit can still be used to purchase IP or to upgrade your backing tier, but not one via the other.

Similarly, each of our packages above $120 included bonus IP. Another way to think of that is, we gave each package an amount of IP to allow some degree of customization on what that package meant to you. For the same reason as above, this IP cannot be used to purchase backing tiers. We previously referred to this as 'No wishing for more wishes.'

As an example, the Merchant tier comes with 225 bonus IP. That's 125 for the Merchant tier itself, plus 100 IP for the Bloodline tier. You cannot turn around and use the 225 IP (valued at $22.50) to get just $2.50 away from the next backing tier.

If you want to go up to the next tier, you either need to pay the difference, or make up the difference in IP through other means.

Refund Policy

On to 'uncomfortable topic' #2. We've struggled long and hard in deciding what our official refund policy was going to be. In the end, we even looked to what similar Kickstarter backed MMORPGs were doing. In almost all cases, others, and now ourselves, have a 'No Refund' policy.

The reasons we have for this are the same as the others, with a few additional ones. First and foremost, this is an in-development game. That means, unlike with a published retail game, revenue isn't going to some bank account to be paid as dividends to investors.

The money we bring in through our online store is immediately earmarked for license fees, salaries, MoCap software, taxes, etc. That means it's effectively spent shortly after receiving it. For example, once we hire an employee based on the money in the account, we have to pay their monthly salary regardless of refunds. Had the money not been there in the first place, we might have made a different choice.

Aside from the reason above, our desire to award people IP when they recruit a friend, in addition to awarding people IP as part of backing tiers, makes it extremely difficult to process refunds quickly.

For example, let's say Person A backs the game at a reasonable amount, and lists person B as the person who referred them. This causes person A to get an amount of 'Bonus IP' and also causes person B to get 50 IP.

Now let's assume person A buys several things with the IP they got, person B goes off and buys stuff using the 50 IP they got for the referral, and then Person A requests a refund. To put it mildly, #$%^&!.

Now we have to track down and remove the IP purchases person A made, and what do we do about person B? Do we take his/her new item away as well and give him back the IP? Headache.

This of course is also combined with the fact that if Person A backed at $350+ they already got access to the Early Access forums, downloaded any exclusive content we might have had available, etc.

For all the combined reasons above, refunds will not be given except in extreme, life-altering situations. These can be a result of loss of jobs, deaths, births, natural disasters, medical emergencies, etc. In those instances, we'll work with backers on a case-by-case basis. While we want to be able to plan effectively, we never want to put our supporters in financial trouble.

Finally, 'No refund' brings with it a stigma of additional risk. But of course, we'll do just as our competitors are doing. In the event that Soulbound Studios is, for some reason, unable to complete development due to a lack of resources, we'll make available our balance sheet so backers can see how the money was spent.

This should provide all the confidence we can that we're not just taking your money and running. Our passion is this game. We're not walking away.

Stretch Goals

Ok. With all that 'serious talk' out of the way, I did want to briefly re-iterate something that was said in a previous update, but seemed to have been consistently misinterpreted.

While our pledge packages will change in November, we will continue to apply revenue we get from now until the end of the year toward stretch goals. We do that so there's another three full months to restore features to the game that had to be yanked for accounting purposes.

Once January comes, however, it'll be too late for us to smartly add new features to the game before launch, no matter how cool they are. And we'll have to move forward with the features we have.

Responsibilities of Titles

Earlier this week, as well as in past Q&A's, we've talked about the responsibilities and commitments of the Nobility and Aristocracy. With the Online Store opening in just a week, I wanted to re-iterate some of the requirements and also provide a bit more details about the duties and benefits of both.

To begin with, each level of Nobility and Aristocracy is designed to provide a slightly different play experience, and each is designed for people who are specifically interested in that style of play.

Kings:
To start with, with only 3-5 per continent, Kings in Chronicles of Elyria have substantial power and a huge impact on the server. When playing a King in CoE, you're effectively playing a kingdom management sim.

You have the ability to set kingdom-wide laws and tax rates, to (at least partially) control the fate of your Dukes, to declare wars on neighboring kingdoms (with a Casus Belli), to determine areas of research and technology, and even to drive the culture of your kingdom. Heck, through your influence with the national religious institutions, you even have indirect influence over the predominant religions in your domain.

Like most kingdom management games, how you define success for your kingdom, be it military, economic, cultural, or technological, is up to you.

That all being said, you'll need to keep a reasonably careful eye on your neighboring kingdoms, sending out spies, etc. You'll need tax collectors to collect taxes from your dukes, and you'll need to work with scribes to set laws and tax rates as necessary. Some of these are non-trivial and a King should expect to spend maybe 6-8 hours per week managing their Kingdom. This is in addition to the time they spend managing their duchy, county, and settlement.

Dukes:
Dukes in Chronicles of Elyria are almost as influential as kings, and are responsible for maintaining the safety and lawfulness of their duchy. As a result, in addition to setting any laws or tax rates for their duchy, they're also responsible for sponsoring barons and knights within each of the counties, to raise and maintain defenses and a standing militia.

If a King ever declares war, or if there's ever an attack on the duchy, it's the duke's responsibility to raise the militia and knights and to march onto the battlefield at the head of their battalion.

In addition, dukes are responsible for appointing sheriffs and judges in each of their counties, to ensure law and order is maintained. Between maintaining their own spies and scouts, tax collectors, and reports, a duke should expect to spend maybe 4-6 hours per week managing their duchy, in addition to any time spent managing their county and settlement.

Counts:
Once you reach the level of count the game plays less like a kingdom management game and more like an RTS. At this point you've got a number of settlements spread throughout your county, each needing safe passage between one another and outside to other counties. This is done through the development of roads and other infrastructure.

In addition, there's mines and other natural resources that need looked after, and the resources of those sites need to be carefully distributed to the different settlements to ensure the most productive use of resources.

And of course, land needs to be distributed in a way that'll be most productive for the county. As a count, you can expect to spend a percentage of your time writing local laws and collecting property taxes from the landed gentry, and negotiating income tax from the different mayors and barons of your county. Aside from that, you'll be working side-by-side with the Sherriff and barons to maintain law and order, minimizing the impact of thieves, poachers, and pirates.

In addition to managing your county, which you should expect to take between 2-4 hours per week, you should expect to spend another 2-6 hours per week managing your individual settlement.

Mayors/Barons:
The last title we're going to focus on today are mayors and barons. And, aside from the fact that barons are sponsored by dukes and are given both resources and authority to keep the peace and maintain defenses, they're effectively the same. Both pay income taxes to their count, and both are able to grow their settlements largely how they please.

When you reach the level of mayor/baron, you're no longer just an adventurer or landed gentry. Now you're playing a bit of a settlement sim game, as you need to collect income taxes from the different business within your settlement, as well as provide certain services to your citizens. You're in part responsible for the zoning and production goals of your settlement, and are ultimately responsible for its defenses. At the same time, if you're not a baron, you're responsible for passing judgement with the help of the other members of the town/city council.

I say that because only petty crimes can be tried in the Common Court, limiting the responsibility of the Town Council. Meanwhile, capital offenses are tried by the Kings Court, and are presided over by either a baron, or a duke-appointed judge that resides within a town or city.

Between collecting taxes, managing the zoning and construction of structures, and communicating with your spies and other representatives, mayors / barons should expect to spend anywhere from 1-5 hours per week, depending on the size of their settlement.

If you've been doing the math in your head, recognize that there's some overlap between each of the duties, allowing for some multi-tasking. As well, we're hoping to provide an online / phone based app that'll allow you to perform many of your duties remotely. Even still, managing a kingdom, duchy, county, or settlement takes commitment, and with great power comes great responsibility.

By our estimates, when we sum up the amount of work required to govern the individual domains, it creates totals that looking something like the following:

  • Kings: 16-20 hours per week
  • Dukes: 10-15 hours per week
  • Counts: 5-10 hours per week
  • Mayors/Baron: 1-6 hours per week

Note, these aren't hard & fast numbers. They're our best guess at this point about how much time an entitled individual should expect to spend managing their domains per week.

Keep in mind, nothing prevents the nobility and aristocracy from delegating their work to others, nor going on vacation for a while. But between all the people involved, the responsibilities will need to be divided up. Failure to do so could leave your citizens without protection or direction, and you may ultimately find yourself replaced with someone more dedicated or suited to the task.

Exchanging IP for Noble Titles

As we mentioned before, and given what you've read above, for those people who aren't interested in maintaining their titles there are other options.

First, you can give some/all of your titles to others. For example, if you're a duke you can forfeit your county in its entirety to someone else to manage, thus passing your count title to them.

Second, you can simply exchange your title for additional IP to use on in-game purchases. Note that the amount of IP you'll receive for a title isn't finalized yet, but you can expect it to be somewhere around 1/2 the price difference between your current backing tier and the previous one.

For example, a Duke ($3,500) is $1,000 more than the Artificer Tier ($2,500). Dividing that in half would give you $500 USD. Multiply that by the 10x IP ratio and you get roughly 5,000 additional IP instead of your Duke title and benefits.

And speaking of benefits, what do you give up if you forfeit your title? This was posted on the forums earlier this week and should answer that question:

Baron/Mayor:
- Baron/Baroness/Mayor Title in-game
- Choose your town/stronghold & name it
- Cloak identifying Rank (Would have a Founder's Cloak instead)
- Access to expanded crest items - mantle & name (these are only on the crest of a Baron+)
- In-game decorative statue (the statue is in your settlement)

As you can see, you lose quite a lot of the Baron/Baroness title if you forfeit the title. Because, well, that's kind of the point of that tier. Also note that Mayor/Baron of a small settlement doesn't require much work. I don't recommend people forfeiting this tier's title rewards unless they absolutely have to.

Count/Countess:
- Start the game as a Count or Countess. Select your County & name it
- Create your noble crest with expanded access to a helm
- Cloak identifying rank (would have a mayor/baron cloak instead)

Duke/Duchess:
- Start the game as one of a limited number of Dukes or Duchesses. Choose your Duchy in the world of Elyria & name it
- Cloak identifying rank (Count cloak instead)

King/Queen:
- Start the game as one of a limited number of Kings or Queens. Choose your Kingdom in the world of Elyria & give it a name.
- Design your Crown with the dev team (Only Kings get crowns)
- Design your custom Crest with the dev team (Custom crests are reserved for the Kings)

Servers & Kingdoms

The last thing I wanted to touch on with respect to the nobility were servers. Earlier this week I sent out private messages on the forums to Kings/Queens and Dukes/Duchesses asking them which server they planned to be on between the potential two North America servers, two European Servers, and one Australian Server.

This was done in order to get an idea of how many noblemen were currently planning to be on specific servers. As you know, for game balance reasons, there's a limited number of kingdoms and duchies on the first continent.

Please note, while I asked them which server they expected to be on, this doesn't mean a firm commitment. This was solely so I'd know if I needed to put a limit on the number of King/Duke tiers for any particular server.

At the moment, there's precisely one king/queen per server, and the dukes are likewise well-distributed. So for the time-being, there's no caps being put in place.

That being said, the prices for different pledge tiers will be going up after October, with the Count and Duke titles seeing the biggest increase. So if you do plan on pledging to become a Count or Duke, you'll want to do so in October.

Hosting the Sedicim is no small thing, and requires significant preparation
Figure 4 - Hosting the Sedicim is no small thing, and requires significant preparation

16-Year Fair & Tournament of Champions

Ok! We're about done with this long update, and the last topic I wanted to address is one of my favorites! Earlier this week in the Discord channel I hinted at something called the Sedecim.

In Chronicles of Elyria, the nobility, aristocracy, gentry, and best craftsman of a continent all get together every 16 in-games years (approx. 4 real-life months) to hash out the land boundaries and trade agreements, to arrange marriages, and to purchase and sample wares from the best craftsmen. Weddings and festivities are held, and there's temporary booths set up so merchants can show off their goods.

Furthermore, each Sedecim is hosted by a different Kingdom and Duchy, with a bid being submitted by each of the interested Dukes and Counts at the preceding Sedecim.

Having the nobles, craftsman, and tourists within your Duchy and County, even for a real-life week, can result in a dramatic increase in wealth and production.

That being said, while festivities, food, and drink are a major part of the Sedecim, ballroom dancing isn't the only dancing that will be done. There's always a difference Dance being played.

Sound exciting? Can't wait for your first royal gathering?! You won't have to wait a full Sedecim. In addition to the 16-year gathering of the nobles, every four in-game years is a Tournament of Champions, where the Dukes and Kings gather with each of their favorite Knights to determine who's the most gifted warriors of the realms.

Like the Sedecim, the host of each Tournament of Champions is a bid presented at the preceding Tournament by the interested Dukes.

Conclusion

Ok all. This has been a massive update. It contains tons of information and clarifications about the upcoming store and also sets the stage for the Sedecim and Tournament of Champions.

The team here at Soulbound Studios are super excited to see the drama already unfolding within the different regions, domains, and organizations, and we hope you'll keep us updated as your own stories start to unfold.

See you next week!

Discuss

Log in to post
Tanyika - 2 months ago

Wondering about Kingdoms & Duchies developing their own events - festivities, religious & other cultural times. When I read your post about disguises with wigs & masks I immediately thought of cultural events. Unfortunately these things seem to be only for deviant types. I was wondering if there was a way you could allow them to be used for no deviant purposes?

vampsvzombies - 3 months ago

I bought the Adventurer Tier earlier today and might just upgrade to the Beastmaster tier in 11 days time and might also get a spare spark too. @Caspian 1.3 million so far in nearly a week! That is not bad at all! I really want this game to succeed and can not wait to play it!

@Micholinos Yes paypal is the option to pay with :)

Micholinos - 3 months ago

Another question. I would like to know if there is anyone else that cant use paypal when paying because when i am trying to buy a pack it is asking for a billing address? Is the use of paypal allowed after filling it ? I would appreciate it if someone could inform me.

myxtum - 3 months ago

Hi Wooga

I pareciate you taking the time to explain this to me. last question, i imagine the higher the social rank the higher the tier? for example the tier of a king will be higher than a baron like me?

Wooga - 3 months ago
@myxtum:

Posted By myxtum at 8:06 PM - Sat Oct 08 2016

Hi Wooga

I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me. last question, i imagine the higher the social rank the higher the tier? for example the tier of a king will be higher than a baron like me?

You are correct. The tier number gets higher the more money you've spent. You are Tier 4 while I'm Tier 2 because I am currently at the Bloodline tier.

At some point in the future, spending $$ won't be the only way for your max influence to go up, so that will slowly change over time. But in general, people who have paid more will always be higher tier.

Wooga - 3 months ago

Tiers are related to your maximum influence value (which you see on your profile page). Max Influence at the moment is strictly 10 x $$ spent, but SBS will be awarding influence for other things (including the long missing referral codes) in the future.

I can't answer you about exactly how many tiers there are, but I know it's not one tier per pledge level. Hopefully, someone else can get you the exact list.

Micholinos - 3 months ago

I would like to ask if its possible to use a paypal to buy things from the store because i am not sure

Dleatherus - 3 months ago
@Micholinos:

Posted By Micholinos at 08:30 AM - Sat Oct 08 2016

I would like to ask if its possible to use a paypal to buy things from the store because i am not sure

yes it is

Micholinos - 3 months ago
@Dleatherus:

ok tnx for the info

myxtum - 3 months ago

Hi everyone, i just found out about this game today, already got the Baron/Baroness tier but i cant seem to find the download for the game. pardon me for the lack of knowledge, but is the game out? if not do we have a release date? alpha or beta maybe?

P.S what does the tier 4 means? lol

TheIrishPansy - 3 months ago
@myxtum:

Posted By myxtum at 8:48 PM - Fri Oct 07 2016

Hi everyone, i just found out about this game today, already got the Baron/Baroness tier but i cant seem to find the download for the game. pardon me for the lack of knowledge, but is the game out? if not do we have a release date? alpha or beta maybe?

P.S what does the tier 4 means? lol

The game is not out yet, it hasn't even entered Alpha. In regards to Tier 4 that is representative of your pledge level which is baron like myself.

myxtum - 3 months ago
@TheIrishPansy:

Posted By TheIrishPansy at 10:21 AM - Sat Oct 08 2016

Posted By myxtum at 8:48 PM - Fri Oct 07 2016

Hi everyone, i just found out about this game today, already got the Baron/Baroness tier but i cant seem to find the download for the game. pardon me for the lack of knowledge, but is the game out? if not do we have a release date? alpha or beta maybe?

P.S what does the tier 4 means? lol

The game is not out yet, it hasn't even entered Alpha. In regards to Tier 4 that is representative of your pledge level which is baron like myself.

alright, thanks i appreciate it, regarding the tiers. how many are there and what each means?

Bloodthirsty - 3 months ago

What day in November? How much time do I have to collect my bank XD

Dr.Quick - 3 months ago

Though my Kickstarter is bound to my account it doesn't show my pledge amount (tier or credits) in the store, though my account page on the site does have my total influence now (which brings a smile to my face).

I only bound my kickstarter after the store opened, is there a sync that is delayed by a few days or should I email someone?

GhettoMaster - 3 months ago

Hello

I am getting red message in check out. I dont know what I should do?

(*Due to a temporary issue with our payment gateway, purchases can only be made with existing in-store and merchandise credit.)

Dleatherus - 3 months ago
@GhettoMaster:

Posted By GhettoMaster at 9:09 PM - Tue Oct 04 2016

Hello

I am getting red message in check out. I dont know what I should do?

(*Due to a temporary issue with our payment gateway, purchases can only be made with existing in-store and merchandise credit.)

wait until tomorrow - they have announced the checkout will work then

GhettoMaster - 3 months ago
@Dleatherus:

Thanks for clarification.

Annuile - 3 months ago

Sleep. That is the Kickstarter funds. Minus the refunds, dropped pledges, and (I assume) Kickstarter fees. That's not wrong, it is the amount that has been raised.

Sleep - 3 months ago
@Annuile:

That might be; I hadn't considered that. Thanks for the reply.

Sleep - 3 months ago

Another issue: on this website at the top-right it says "Total Collected Towards Goals $1,216,203" That figure is clearly wrong.

Sleep - 3 months ago

on Kickstarter I pledged $175 - [EARLY BIRD] URSAPHANT RIDER

on this website's store page it shows: URSAPHANT RIDER TIER - $25

"$25" suggests that it recognizes that I bought the early bird pledge, but shouldn't it say instead, "URSAPHANT RIDER TIER - $0"?

will that be corrected?

mystichaze - 3 months ago
@Sleep:

Posted By Sleep at 06:10 AM - Tue Oct 04 2016

on Kickstarter I pledged $175 - [EARLY BIRD] URSAPHANT RIDER

on this website's store page it shows: URSAPHANT RIDER TIER - $25

"$25" suggests that it recognizes that I bought the early bird pledge, but shouldn't it say instead, "URSAPHANT RIDER TIER - $0"?

will that be corrected?

This is a confirmed bug and I assume they are working on fixing it.. :)

link

Sleep - 3 months ago
@mystichaze:

Thanks. I didn't think to look at the forum for discussion on the matter. Glad to see it's a bug.

GhettoMaster - 3 months ago
@Sleep:

I have same issue too.

GhettoMaster - 3 months ago

Thanks Caspian

Dreyden - 3 months ago

Any new about the release of the store yet?

eMadagio - 3 months ago
@Dreyden:

Posted By Dreyden at 4:02 PM - Mon Oct 03 2016

Any new about the release of the store yet?

Store Release Incoming

Soon™.

Ruthgar - 3 months ago

For everyone that is crying foul about the store for them to secure additional funding, I would like to point out that the plan for securing additional funding from a publishing company and from more players was mentioned back in the original kickstarter campaign literature I do believe. I know it was my hope to be able to possibly buy/pledge to a higher tier later on as due to a family emergency I was tapped out on my budget and did not want to use any of my emergency fund to pay into the kickstarter. But, while I wanted more I was satisfied with becoming a count with my kickstarter investment.

Now, things are much better, and while I do not see myself putting enough in to become a king, (thats way too much for me over the month unless i win some money) and even a duke is most likely beyond my reach right now without some sacrifices, I definately would like to advance my position to brewmaster or weaponmaster even just because I want to give this game every chance possible to succeed. Plus I would definately like to hit the stretch goal(if the stretch goals are still achievable for launch right now) of tunneling as it would allow for more advanced mining and even towns/cities (sewer systems possibly).

I can't wait to see what this project is going to develop into.

Sleep - 3 months ago
@Ruthgar:

"I would definately like to hit the stretch goal(if the stretch goals are still achievable for launch right now)"

"if the stretch goals are still achievable for launch right now"

In this blog entry, under the heading "Stretch Goals"...

"While our pledge packages will change in November, we will continue to apply revenue we get from now until the end of the year toward stretch goals. We do that so there's another three full months to restore features to the game that had to be yanked for accounting purposes.

Once January comes, however, it'll be too late for us to smartly add new features to the game before launch, no matter how cool they are. And we'll have to move forward with the features we have."

Chalkii - 3 months ago

This might come across as a little hostile but I think the people who are really upset about this need to take a few steps back and reevaluate because your emotional response is not proportional to the reality of the situation.

There's a reason it's called "Kickstarter". It's because you seek funding to "kick-start" your idea/product/game. Seriously, if you didn't understand that then, and still don't now that it's been explained to you, then that's a personal problem.

At no point was it stated that the entire game would be funded through Kickstarter. But even if they had mistakenly led people to believe otherwise, what's the problem here?

I'm confused how anyone who pledged would get angry about CoE seeking/needing further funding-especially since you have no obligation whatsoever to pledge more, and you aren't losing your rewards... I'm sorry, did you want the game you backed to fail? Did you want your pledge to go to waste and have nothing to show for it?

You can't cry "deception" just because you lacked the understanding and/or common sense to know how Kickstarter works and filled in the gaps of your knowledge with assumptions. Even if Caspian, or whoever, didn't properly spell it out for everyone, it's a far stretch to call him a liar. At that point, you're just being irrational.

Caspian and the others have been extremely respectful, transparent and understanding. Clearly there was a misunderstanding and they've clarified things to help with that. So, reign in your emotions and let's try to be a little more patient, logical and understanding, ok?

Sleep - 3 months ago
@Chalkii:

To answer part of what you said: https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics#faq_62996 "The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project."

Magamata - 3 months ago

I am very excited about following through the progress! Good luck!

Azair - 3 months ago

If I am a Baron, I owe my position/land to the Duke so I would not have any feudal obligation to the Count. So why would I pay taxes to the Count?

Ruthgar - 3 months ago
@Azair:

Its basically a giant management pyramid. First up at the top is the king&queen. Then they have some dukes under them to help run the kingdom. Now the dukes also have to run their duchies so they each have a few counts to help them run things. The counts are running their counties, so they each have a few barons, and it just keeps going down to the peasents. NOW, this is if we have a nice even progression and spread of ranks, I imagine we might get one server with dozens of baron and only 5 or 6 counts, and possibly another server with close to a hundred counts but only a dozen barons at first. Things will work out if we try.

Wolfguarde - 3 months ago

I regrettably don't have the reference handy (I've been looking, but it's 6am and I honestly have no idea which platform it was posted on), but during the kickstarter SbS posted a detailed layout of their funding strategy, in which it was quite clear that the kickstarter was only the first of several stages of funding along the way to release. That's where most of us that were arguing that the bone of contention here is redundant were drawing our information.

Syclone - 3 months ago

Sedecim?

Can someone say political assassination? How about whodunnit party games?

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago

Thanks for the answers on the article, Caspian, and the whole explanation of the business plan.

If it had been explained like on the KS description itself, it would have made things a lot less surprising for us when we read you.

You live and you learn, I guess. On both sides ;)

Caspian - 3 months ago
@HolyAvengerOne:

Posted By HolyAvengerOne at 6:28 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

Thanks for the answers on the article, Caspian, and the whole explanation of the business plan.

If it had been explained like on the KS description itself, it would have made things a lot less surprising for us when we read you.

You live and you learn, I guess. On both sides ;)

Totally agree, man. We were never hiding it, and if I could go back now, I'd say exactly what I said in the interview up-front and center. We just didn't think it was an issue. Hopefully everyone can move past this now.

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago
@Caspian:

Posted By Caspian at 10:46 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

Posted By HolyAvengerOne at 6:28 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

Thanks for the answers on the article, Caspian, and the whole explanation of the business plan.

If it had been explained like on the KS description itself, it would have made things a lot less surprising for us when we read you.

You live and you learn, I guess. On both sides ;)

Totally agree, man. We were never hiding it, and if I could go back now, I'd say exactly what I said in the interview up-front and center. We just didn't think it was an issue. Hopefully everyone can move past this now.

Thanks. I don't think any has any good reasons left not too ;)

OrangeBoy - 3 months ago
@Caspian:

Posted By Caspian at 7:46 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

Posted By HolyAvengerOne at 6:28 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

Thanks for the answers on the article, Caspian, and the whole explanation of the business plan.

If it had been explained like on the KS description itself, it would have made things a lot less surprising for us when we read you.

You live and you learn, I guess. On both sides ;)

Totally agree, man. We were never hiding it, and if I could go back now, I'd say exactly what I said in the interview up-front and center. We just didn't think it was an issue. Hopefully everyone can move past this now.

I'm gonna leave a good review on yelp when this game comes out

Ianquekiller - 3 months ago

You will have my money.

Sleep - 3 months ago

articles that appeared this morning regarding this update:

http://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/chronicles-of-elyria-seeks-additional-funding-fully-complete/

http://2p.com/45033501_1/Chronicles-of-Elyria-Needs-Another-3M-to-Complete-Backers-Got-Angry-by-Fury116.htm

Sneezewortt - 3 months ago

I'd also like to say just how confident it makes me feel in this game seeing that Caspian and the team + their friends and family essentially matched what kickstarter funded...that really shows to me the dedication to see the game completed putting that amount of personal finances up to get your dream completed really gives me confidence in the team and their drive and sincerity in completing the game.

Thanks for showing that kind of dedication to the project and don't let the bad reactions get you too down!

Bokimbol - 3 months ago

He said the store when it reopens is not for the base game. If you choose not to believe him thats your thing.

Hey, he said he has a publisher that offered. He was asked if he has the additional fiances lined up and he says he can't say at this point. I choose to believe that means yes and he can't say. Obviously you take the complete opposite point of view. I choose to be optimistic that the game I pledged my money too will be made. You choose to think otherwise. Either way neither of us has any control over it so why not stop trying to cast doubt on it and everything Caspian says? I mean really, what are you accomplishing by doing that? You want the game made and so do I. How is this helping getting the game made is my point?

You made your point. Caspian screwed up and didn't make it clear to some people what monies were needed. So why keep hammering away on it?

Ok, we are just talking around in circles now. You want to believe the sky is falling. I want to believe everything is all peaches and cream.

Jouten - 3 months ago

Ya know what helps the team develop the game? Damage control. Damage control over something folks are crying "liar" over when it wasn't their intention, when we've seen them make progress in the development of the game, take time to talk to us individually on open chats, and give us better progress reports than a lot of indy devs (looking at you Unsung Story). But screw all of that good faith and trust, let's just worry the hell out of the developers over something they openly said they miscommunicated on, over something they assumed folks knew but instead they acknowledged they done goof. Nah man, let's just make it worse for them. Because we donated money to them, they owe us everything.... Jeez folks...

Bokimbol - 3 months ago

True and if you read the article he gives the impression he has that money lined up. And, he is not expecting the players to contribute any more to the development of the game.

I was just telling Raiborn that the store is NOT for the base game. I too was a bit annoyed the store is taking so long to launch but hey what can you do?

VictoriaRachel - 3 months ago
@Bokimbol:

Posted By Bokimbol at 5:40 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

True and if you read the article he gives the impression he has that money lined up. And, he is not expecting the players to contribute any more to the development of the game.

I was just telling Raiborn that the store is NOT for the base game. I too was a bit annoyed the store is taking so long to launch but hey what can you do?

If I can not actually get my hands on it is it really a game? I would say a release is a big part of a base game and that is not included. Therefore, yes some of that money is needed for the base game.

As for having the money lined up I think we are reading different articles.

Caspian - 3 months ago
@VictoriaRachel:

Posted By VictoriaRachel at 09:49 AM - Wed Sep 28 2016

If I can not actually get my hands on it is it really a game?

I would assume so... if your friend bakes you a cake but then drops it before you get there, did she really bake you a cake?

From both a development and business standpoint, having a complete (even mostly complete) game, all but ensures the successful launch of the game.

When there's 0 risk to others, all that remains is getting it in the hands of customers.

Our focus has always been on raising money to develop the game, relying on having a mostly finished product to raise capital for the testing, hosting, and distribution of the game.

Honestly, with a game as unique and challenging as CoE to make, raising additional capital after the game is developed is significantly less challenging than developing the game itself.

Bokimbol - 3 months ago

@Raiborn, if you read the article just posted this morning

article

Caspian is very clear that the store is not for the funding of the base game. It is more for the late comers to be able to pledge and us old timers to upgrade and reaching more stretch goals. It seems that they even have a publisher offering to help pay for the game.Which he explains is not a bad thing because the game is a bit more developed and they would have less control of it at this point. He didn't say he was doing that but he definitely left it open as a option. And he seems very confident he will be able to get the rest of the money needed as he gives the "impression" that he has it lined up already but is not allowed to say it yet.

As far as keeping the info secret. Hey, people are going to believe what they want to believe despite the facts. As you said why would he say it at all in other venues if he were trying to dupe us? Not to mention that many of us new this before the KS. Why would he say it on here just before the store is about to open if this was intentional? I think his baking analogy was perfect. I once tried making a black forest cake with home made whip cream. I followed the directions perfectly but the cake came out flat. I showed it to a woman at work and she knew right away what I did wrong. The eggs weren't room temperature when I used them. No where in the recipe did it say the eggs had to be room temperature. It just assumed I knew that.

If your trying to explain something to a layman that your an expert in, I can see how something Caspian thought was very basic to him would not be so obvious to us and thus he never mentioned it. Or he has a hundred things he is doing and maybe he just missed posting it on the KS. When people say he did it on purpose they are just looking for a reason to be angry. Yes he screwed up not posting it on the KS but it was a oversight and not him trying to rip us off.

VictoriaRachel - 3 months ago
@Bokimbol:

Posted By Bokimbol at 5:17 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

Caspian is very clear that the store is not for the funding of the base game.

It is clear that funding is needed to release the base game though which I think is a major element of providing a game.

Racronos - 3 months ago
@VictoriaRachel:

But he also clearly says that additional funding isn't coming from the players, unless they feel like giving more.

Their plan has always been to go elsewhere for that additional funding. Investors, publishers and "other" sources.

Raiborn - 3 months ago

Honestly I am not surprised at the funding required. Looking at the quality of the demos we have seen so far and the ambitious scope of the project, 2 million seemed unrealistic. If we look at projects that have gone through a similar process (crowfall, elite dangerous and camelot unchained for example), a percentage of total funds came from kickstarter. The lion's share of funds came from their store and private investors. Compare their kickstarter funds and total funds displayed on their respective websites.

As for the notion that SbS had intentionally kept that information a secret, I don't believe that is the case. It might have been an oversight not stating that clearly on the kickstarter but it is true that every time Caspian was asked that question on Q&A sessions or kickstarter, he was quite forthcoming about it.

My only surprise out of all this is the amount of time it took to get the store ready. Especially now that we know how important it is for the game to be feature complete and released.

GrumpyHobbit - 3 months ago

I left MMORPG almost 2 months ago and deleted my account from there after being a member for about 8 years. The reason? Too many uninformed, illogical retards there now, it is just a cesspool of ignorance.

For an example one of their 'Epic' posters wrote...

"Wow, that's simply amazing. I think as others have said, Kickstarter is for finishing a project, not just getting an influx of money."

Let that statement sink in...

"Kickstarter is for finishing a project"

Great work genius...

VictoriaRachel - 3 months ago
@GrumpyHobbit:

Posted By GrumpyHobbit at 4:33 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

Great work genius...

The KickStarter FAQ agrees with that statement. "The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project." That is one of the reasons they do all or nothing funding as it is so difficult to deliver the project without all the money needed.

GrumpyHobbit - 3 months ago
@VictoriaRachel:

Posted By VictoriaRachel at 4:44 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

Posted By GrumpyHobbit at 4:33 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

Great work genius...

The KickStarter FAQ agrees with that statement. "The funding goal is the amount of money that a creator needs to complete their project." That is one of the reasons they do all or nothing funding as it is so difficult to deliver the project without all the money needed.

  1. to start (a motorcycle engine) by means of a pedal that is kicked downwards
  2. informal to make (something) active, functional, or productive again

It sure doesn't mean 2 because there is no 'before' and hence can be no 'again'.

So the usage is to compare the activity to the functional equivalent of starting an engine.

So the site is misusing the term at best. It doesn't help when people then use that misuse of a term to complain about continued funding, even more so when that argument is actually a fallacy.

Sleep - 3 months ago

I just read the MassivelyOP interview. source: http://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/

You said, "As to your specific question, the original $1.2M we raised is being used for our core development and creation of a minimally viable version of the game, which includes the stretch goals we achieved, and any we achieve between now and January 1st. That includes a majority, but not all of the features we plan in the final game. In terms of deliverables, we view that as our Alpha 1 Milestone."

I always took "minimally viable version of the game" to mean "live(as in released)," not "alpha 1." Seems like a language problem. Maybe it's a common term that means alpha 1 in the tech world, but not clear to the layman?

karat76 - 3 months ago

So if a in game year is a week real time is there a day and night cycle in the game? Just how fast are the days? This could make eating and drinking a fairly important part of your play session.

CharliesDragon - 3 months ago

I just got caught up on the last several dev journals last night, and I'm liking where things are going! Even the changes you've made, they definitely feel like they'll make the world feel more alive and complete. I'm thinking especially about the changes to lifetimes and the heir system. It actually seems to have brought things more back in line with your original vision, or at least the vision you had before the stasis heir mechanic.

I still find some of the creatures you think up absolutely terrifying and strange, but some are also adorable, and it'll be very interesting to see what more you have to offer.

Sleep - 3 months ago

I'm very glad for many of the posts written here regarding the funding issue. I had some of the same concerns/complaints as Mazikar, HolyAvengerOne, VictoriaRachel, Bokimbol, and others.

Thanks for your reply here Caspian. At least for me, it availed much of my frustration. "The problem is, we didn't say it directly on the Kickstarter page." As long as you own up to your mistakes, and address and correct them, I and many others will forgive you. If this situation troubled you as much as you said, then I hope you're comforted by some of the comments here.

edit With that being said, I might have a different attitude if I had invested more money than I did. And I don't fault anyone for feeling cheated, since as I understand it, the project yet needs much more funds to reach completion, and no kickstarter pledgers will be refunded if that fails.

Majael - 3 months ago

So Elyrian Tier allows to play when game will be relased, so in 2017, and Adventurer Tier will allow to play the game, before relase in 2017 so from October 3rd ?

And can you show details about game requirments ? The best way to compare it with other rpg/mmo games ? Cause I have notebook, and could play Guild Wars 2, The Elder Scrolls Online without lagging on low graphics, but while playing Skyrim i had lags in some places with low level graphics. So I just wonder if I can play this game, and help to develop and evolve it :)

Halp pls :D Ty

Inasyah - 3 months ago

Needing more than 900k$ for a MMO is common sense lol.

Under 3-6million$ there is no way you could do a proper one.

And even that is the bare minimum.

Count Fjorlund - 3 months ago

Right now my extended network of gaming friends are currently estimating the outcomes of many of our pet projects.

Let me start by saying that contributing to a game that you want to see made is a way to facilitate the purchasing of hope for a lot of very jaded people. I've seen people light up about Chronicles of Elyria and other projects in ways that I've never seen these people light up before. Hope is hard to come by, and many have a toxic reaction to hope turning into faith.

Anyway, we compare CoE to our other big donation game Star Citizen. We've come up with a number of something like a 40% chance that Star Citizen is an overreaching bloat job. Now, comparing that to Chronicles of Elyria... the evidence is just not there. We'd estimate CoE at a 97% chance of being produced by a passionate, realistic, and capable team.

I'd like to entreat dissenters to aim their vocal (and sometimes contrarian-bent) skepticism at more worthy targets, and simply keep an eye on this project. It's the best hope on the market.

Xuerou - 3 months ago

Caspian, well said. I trust you guys, this is a game you are making out of passion. I hope that you don't have to wake up in sweats and fear. Do not worry, we support you.

MeltedWater - 3 months ago

I'm just still mad that you said you'd have a layaway option, and now it seems as though you've deceived us there as well. If you don't want my money to purchase things at the rate you'll have them in October, then you won't get my money at all. Plenty of companies know the importance of layaway, and it's sad that yours doesn't. The "layaway" options you talk about are confusing, but it seems as though it's quite the opposite of what layaway actually is, and even if I'm understanding it wrong, I'm sure it's not what we think it is.

Sneezewortt - 3 months ago

Caspian and the rest of the team: Dont let the frustrations and complaints and anger get you down or stress you too much, your doing a great job handling the situation how its unfolded, and hindsight is 20/20.

Try and learn from the people this irritated or confused with legitimate (or not so legitimate) issues and make it less likely to happen in the future. It would be good to consolidate all information discussed in all the various channels to one place, a dev tacker of sorts that compiles all comments and info given in different places. This prevents people from feeling so blindsided or left out from information, just because they are not constantly using and monitoring the multiple (way too many) channels you guys are using to disseminate information.

Please i beg you dont fall into this routine of giving out extra info on discord etc and thinking thats enough, it must and always should be giving in one location where everyone can come to when they have time and see what was said.

I understand the draw to talk to dedicated fans separately who are in your discord channel or irc, and that is valued, but as you grow and offer incentives like the early access forum and have more people who have put money towards this game, you cant keep taking away from that by giving away more on various chat channels and not (at least) disseminating it in a specific place that keeps record for all to see when they can. I for one am tired of being told oh well this was already discussed in discord before or on facebook etc etc...there needs to be a place for all this to be compiled.

This turned a bit into more complaining, but please dont take it that way. I'm trying to give constructive criticism. You guys again are doing great and this spreading of information in the wide array of channels with no consolidation effort (in a timely manner, until recently) is a tiny gripe in the scheme of things, but thats what most the issues here come down to and i think has sunk in.

Just please a Dev Tracker with all information discussed or disseminated in the other channels of communication all in one place housed for all to read, in a timely manner, or these complaints and frustrations will continue to pop up. Even if there is from now on something like a dev tracker in place, you will get these issues but they can easily be referred to the said dev tracker to quell some of the unrest.

Thank you for handling the situation so well, please learn from it and make it easier to find statements and information stated throughout the various channels in one place.

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago

Thanks for the update Caspian, it is much appreciated and does show that you do care a lot. I understand where you're coming from, and I believe you also understood my/our point, the one we discussed yesterday night. So thanks for that.

As I said, changing my understanding of that aspect of the project here doesn't change the fact that I do support this game. That's why I spoke up yesterday. Because I care about the game and I wanted to help as much as possible in pointing out what I perceive as issues in pr and communications, misunderstandings that could lead to potential loss of potential backers and impact the project.

A few closing questions to help me wrap my head around what this all mean for you, actually :

1) If we were to hypothesize, strictly with the current funding level of you + the ks + f&f : what can you deliver of the CoE vision and what is left out?

2) To go with your proposed/estimated timeframe of Dec. 2017 (and/or Q1 2018, I guess), can you share with us a rough estimate of what are the funding milestones you need to meet? What about to just keep it afloat?

3) Will the pledging / backing data on your website exposed in the same level of details as it is on Kickstarter (# of backers by reward and by day, total backed amount, etc.)?

Thanks again!

OrangeBoy - 3 months ago

I love you Casper

Rycore - 3 months ago

so will these micro transation be in the full game?

Sharayah - 3 months ago
@Rycore:

Posted By Rycore at 7:09 PM - Tue Sep 27 2016

so will these micro transation be in the full game?

Nope! IP is going away after the game launches. Influence Points are designed both to reward people who help bring the game into being and to get the worlds set up properly before launch. Having people able to buy houses/titles/etc. means those with power at the start have a literal investment in keeping them. The other alternatives would either have a lot of people going "why did this game randomly make me a duke, I just want to fish!" or have a world that's 100% run by NPCs at launch (which would cause a mad rush to claim lands and titles).

There's a similar system in-game, Story Points, but those are earned by actively playing rather than being able to be bought, and can't be spent on things like land or titles. Leftover IP turns into SP, but at a very disadvantageous rate. Not at all a classic microtransaction system and certainly not Pay To Win.

Dleatherus - 3 months ago

@Caspian

for me your transparency and your passion and commitment not just to the game, but to the individuals who make up this community, aren't in question

bummer to hear it stressed you, but understandable that it did given how vested you are in seeing your legacy take life

just like nobody bitches or whines anymore about when the website was down, they won't be whining about this in a matter of weeks either

there will be other such situations in the months to come - hopefully both devs and backers will realize and accept it's an undesirable but inescapable part of the process, and will be less traumatic on individuals on both 'sides' - because i see us all as 'one' with no 'sides' per se

keep on truckin' man - the community is behind you and your dream as it transforms into reality

Aeryn Suun - 3 months ago

What is the plan to keep encouraging current people to continue to invest and bring new people to the game? Word of mouth is great but, those who I have talk to would like to see more than update postings, art images and scripted in-game videos.

I am hoping the “The Awakening” will come out in time and I can use it to help push towards the remainder of stretch goals before the year is up (need digging and burying) - after the goals will no longer be offered to allow on time release date of Q4 2017.

They’re impress with the written plan for the game. We have less than a million to go!

Stretch Goals:

($1,050,000) Reward: New Environ Artist - Seeds of Angelica's Tear (goal reached)

($1,300,000) Feature: UI/UX & Programmer - Wards (goal reached)

($1,350,000) Reward: Religious Statues (goal reached)

• ($1,500,000) Feature: New Animator - Gambling / Gaming

• ($1,650,000) Reward: Character Artist - Backer Exclusive Pet/Mount Breed & Customization

• ($1,750,000) Feature: Tunneling

• ($1,800,000) Reward: Phoenix Pet

• ($2,000,000) Feature: Another Programmer -Digging / Burying / Sensory Map

• ($2,100,000) Reward: Mac/Linux/VR Support

• ($2,250,000) Feature: Another Animator - Mounted Combat

Looking forward to The Awakening and CoE MUD!

Egore - 3 months ago

Sound great keep up the good work Caspian and team!!

Bokimbol - 3 months ago

I for one never in my wildest dreams thought this was any sort of intentional deception. As I said above, if Caspian were trying to deceive us, why would he even mention it at all a week before the store opens? He would have been quiet and let everyone continue to assume the 900k was enough.

I think this site needs a page that somehow posts things that are said in other venues by the devs. Even posting in a thread like this has the potential for people to miss it as time passes and the thread works it's way down the page. Also, new people to the site will miss a lot of things that were said months ago if they were said in a thread like this one.

Again, all I can say is I somehow knew the 900k was not enough and others did as well. Unfortunately I have no idea how I knew it and can't point it out anywhere but I did know it. So I know for a fact that there was no attempt to deceive and Caspian's baking analogy is exactly the sort of thing I had pictured that had happened.

Vermidian - 3 months ago

Caspian, that post was so well said, I could cry. You've done a great job, and I think most of this will blow over soon. I still totally understand and trust you guys, and I'm excited to see what the future brings.

I didn't feel deceived. Communication is hard, things happen. It's okay. I knew when I first read about this game through Caspian's words, that he was trustworthy. I felt that strongly, convictingly, intuitively, and I still adhere to it.

That is why I am invested in this game/community, to whatever degree. And you've not let me down, or changed, or been a false person. I am so proud to be under your guidance and watch, and the team's too. I hope all the best for you.

I think you have the best plan for now; keep moving on according to plan. Things will clear up, and I doubt little actual change will occur within the community, so keep earning trust through your hard work, which has been ABUNDANTLY consistent, and impressive. Yet, feel no more pressure to do so. Just keep doing you, you're great..

I hope this process/confusion, in the end, instills confidence and trust on both sides.

Also, it's especially heartening that you are so active during events like this. While some may have concern over your own personal interaction being so heavy, mostly concern for your own well-being, I think seeing the origin of the project is much more swaying and influencing than a mod in situations like these.

Caspian - 3 months ago

Hey all,

We've sent Bree from MassivelyOP.com the responses to their questions, and should see a publication sometime tomorrow morning. We believe that'll answer most of the questions people have.

That said, we can really divide the concerns people have into two main categories:

  • The idea we've intentionally deceived people
  • The realization for some people that CoE requires more funding to go from "mostly feature complete" to "on virtual store shelves."

I think the latter of the two will be addressed in our MassivelyOP interview tomorrow. But I did quickly want to address the first one. That's literally my nightmare.

I was up most of the night last night, and when I did sleep I woke with cold-sweats, in fear that the community we've built such a strong relationship with would believe we were intentionally deceiving them. We just don't work that way.

With that said, from the very beginning we've told people we were going to need resources from more than just Kickstarter. We've told people here on the forums, on IRC, in Discord, in Kickstarter comments, in DM21 Gaming Q&As, etc. Or at least, it seemed like we had.

The problem is, we didn't say it directly on the Kickstarter page. But I want to stress, that wasn't intentional. Requiring more than just the Kickstarter money to ship the game was so ingrained in our minds and the people we communicate with regularly, that we simply took for granted that people would understand that Kickstarter for us was for kickstarting... not finishing.

We'd told people we had 18 months of development and a team of, at the time, 16 people. So basic arithmetic says $900k isn't going to cover even salaries for the full 18 months.

But that all aside, I didn't want any more time to go by with people thinking we were trying to be sneaky or deceptive.

If you're baking with your kid and you go "now put the egg in the bowl", you just kind of expect them to crack the egg first. If they don't, it's technically your fault for not being explicit, but does it mean you were being duplicitous? No, you simply took for granted they had the necessary understanding of the process. That's the reason we didn't explicitly say Kickstarter wasn't all the money we needed. It isn't true, and it didn't occur to us to be explicit about it. I guess it just seemed obvious to us.

In any case, the last thing I wanted to share with people is some screenshots I took of things we'd previously posted on Kickstarter. I'm not trying to be defensive here, I'm just showing that when asked "do you need to crack the egg first," we've always answered yes. Again, we never meant to deceive people, and I only wish we'd called attention to these questions more broadly, rather than taking for granted it was known information.

ironzerg - 3 months ago
@Caspian:

If you're baking with your kid and you go 'now put the egg in the bowl', you just kind of expect them to crack the egg first. If they don't, it's technically your fault for not being explicit, but does it mean you were being duplicitous? No, you simply took for granted they had the necessary understanding of the process. That's the reason we didn't explicitly say Kickstarter wasn't all the money we needed. It isn't true, and it didn't occur to us to be explicit about it. I guess it just seemed obvious to us.

I still don't believe that you're being completely honest with us. And I think your example of "baking cookies with kids" is fairly demeaning. We're not talking about cookies, we're talking about people giving you hundreds or thousands of dollars of their own money to complete a project.

The rules on Kickstarter are fairly simple:

"Projects must be honest and clearly presented.

Our community is built on trust and communication. Projects can’t mislead people or misrepresent facts, and creators should be candid about what they plan to accomplish. When a project involves manufacturing and distributing something complex, like a gadget, we require projects to show backers a prototype of what they’re making, and we prohibit photorealistic renderings."

You did not clearly communicate that the $900k was only PART of the money you needed to complete the project. As you pointed out, you said it everywhere except where it was important. And I can only speculate why:

1) Attempting a Kickstarter for the full $3-4 million would've been extremely risky, since it's an all or nothing proposition. Even though you're being duplicitous about this, I'm fairly certain that the discussions with your team first revolved around how much money you realistically think you can raise, then set that target, with the hopes that it would keep the company afloat long enough to get more money for the project, or make enough progress to convince someone to invest.

2) I'm fairly certain you and your team were also fearful that if you mentioned directly on the Kickstarter page, with full transparency, that your intent was the above, it would've put the project at risks of not getting funded, even at $900k.

Either way, your Kickstarter did "mislead people or misrepresent facts" since it did not clearly denote the risk or need for SUBSTANTIALLY more money to complete the project.

You're a smart guy. Stop spinning and be honest here. There's absolutely no reason for you to have NOT included that statement either at the top of the Kickstarter project description or in the "Risks and Challenges" section. The risk that you'll be unable to continue to secure funding after the Kickstarter in order to complete the game is very real and tangible. And it was omitted, and I believe intentionally. When I read and re-read the Kickstarter page, I see the incredibly amount of detail and thought put into "selling" the project. It got me excited, which is why I put a couple hundred bucks down to back the project. But on that front page, there isn't even the hint of anything to indicate you'd be unable to finish the project with out SUBSTANTIALLY more money than the Kickstarter raised.

If you really want to champion honesty and transparency in your project, stop trying to spin. Stop with the metaphors. Shoot straight with your audience, because the reality is you need to find that $3 million somewhere, and that's going to hinge on maintaining your credibility.

Rysaiah - 3 months ago
@ironzerg:

Posted By ironzerg at 06:21 AM - Wed Sep 28 2016

If you're baking with your kid and you go 'now put the egg in the bowl', you just kind of expect them to crack the egg first. If they don't, it's technically your fault for not being explicit, but does it mean you were being duplicitous? No, you simply took for granted they had the necessary understanding of the process. That's the reason we didn't explicitly say Kickstarter wasn't all the money we needed. It isn't true, and it didn't occur to us to be explicit about it. I guess it just seemed obvious to us.

I still don't believe that you're being completely honest with us. And I think your example of "baking cookies with kids" is fairly demeaning. We're not talking about cookies, we're talking about people giving you hundreds or thousands of dollars of their own money to complete a project.

The rules on Kickstarter are fairly simple:

"Projects must be honest and clearly presented.

Our community is built on trust and communication. Projects can’t mislead people or misrepresent facts, and creators should be candid about what they plan to accomplish. When a project involves manufacturing and distributing something complex, like a gadget, we require projects to show backers a prototype of what they’re making, and we prohibit photorealistic renderings."

You did not clearly communicate that the $900k was only PART of the money you needed to complete the project. As you pointed out, you said it everywhere except where it was important. And I can only speculate why:

1) Attempting a Kickstarter for the full $3-4 million would've been extremely risky, since it's an all or nothing proposition. Even though you're being duplicitous about this, I'm fairly certain that the discussions with your team first revolved around how much money you realistically think you can raise, then set that target, with the hopes that it would keep the company afloat long enough to get more money for the project, or make enough progress to convince someone to invest.

2) I'm fairly certain you and your team were also fearful that if you mentioned directly on the Kickstarter page, with full transparency, that your intent was the above, it would've put the project at risks of not getting funded, even at $900k.

Either way, your Kickstarter did "mislead people or misrepresent facts" since it did not clearly denote the risk or need for SUBSTANTIALLY more money to complete the project.

You're a smart guy. Stop spinning and be honest here. There's absolutely no reason for you to have NOT included that statement either at the top of the Kickstarter project description or in the "Risks and Challenges" section. The risk that you'll be unable to continue to secure funding after the Kickstarter in order to complete the game is very real and tangible. And it was omitted, and I believe intentionally. When I read and re-read the Kickstarter page, I see the incredibly amount of detail and thought put into "selling" the project. It got me excited, which is why I put a couple hundred bucks down to back the project. But on that front page, there isn't even the hint of anything to indicate you'd be unable to finish the project with out SUBSTANTIALLY more money than the Kickstarter raised.

If you really want to champion honesty and transparency in your project, stop trying to spin. Stop with the metaphors. Shoot straight with your audience, because the reality is you need to find that $3 million somewhere, and that's going to hinge on maintaining your credibility.

This all comes down to SBS and Caspian being truly transparent. If he would of said nothing about money at all, he would of still be 'with holding information' or 'lying' as some people may think. When I read the update the part on money was no surprise to me. But I also understood that it is not our responsibility to provide that money. The 900K they got from the kickstarter is all they believe they needed for the seed funding, to 'kickstart' the project per-say. And the successful kickstarter was a great catalyst for other things; SpatialOS for example. I'm certain they decided to hop on because they saw how excited the community was. As they get further into production I highly expect the investors to get involved whether or not we donate more to this project as a community or not. This game has a lot of potential, I see it doing great things. For that reason I have no doubts in how SBS and Caspian manage things. I fully intend on doubling my pledge and then some, and I know that I am not the only one.

VictoriaRachel - 3 months ago
@Rysaiah:

Posted By Rysaiah at 3:37 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

And the successful kickstarter was a great catalyst for other things; SpatialOS for example. I'm certain they decided to hop on because they saw how excited the community was.

Either that or the two companies had been in talks for months before the announcement, so it was not some magical catalyst. Which is why some of us were able to guess that was what their big announcement would be before it was announced.

Bokimbol - 3 months ago
@VictoriaRachel:

Posted By VictoriaRachel at 10:42 AM - Wed Sep 28 2016

Posted By Rysaiah at 3:37 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

And the successful kickstarter was a great catalyst for other things; SpatialOS for example. I'm certain they decided to hop on because they saw how excited the community was.

Either that or the two companies had been in talks for months before the announcement, so it was not some magical catalyst. Which is why some of us were able to guess that was what their big announcement would be before it was announced.

If I remember correctly they were in talks before the KS but were only hinted at. And Caspian was able to complete the deal once the KS was successful.

VictoriaRachel - 3 months ago
@Bokimbol:

Posted By Bokimbol at 4:53 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

If I remember correctly they were in talks before the KS but were only hinted at. And Caspian was able to complete the deal once the KS was successful.

Yes, that was exactly what I was referring to though I believe the announcement was more date related. They had been in talk for months, sorry that was not clear from my post.

Rysaiah - 3 months ago
@VictoriaRachel:

Posted By VictoriaRachel at 07:42 AM - Wed Sep 28 2016

Posted By Rysaiah at 3:37 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

And the successful kickstarter was a great catalyst for other things; SpatialOS for example. I'm certain they decided to hop on because they saw how excited the community was.

Either that or the two companies had been in talks for months before the announcement, so it was not some magical catalyst.

What makes you so certain they aren't doing the same with investors.

VictoriaRachel - 3 months ago
@Rysaiah:

Posted By Rysaiah at 3:45 PM - Wed Sep 28 2016

What makes you so certain they aren't doing the same with investors.

Nothing, and I have never claimed otherwise. I have not actually mentioned investors at any point.

Bokimbol - 3 months ago

Mazikar, I must apologize for my attitude with you earlier. I was annoyed at something else not game related and yours was the first post I saw. So sorry about that.

I was just asking a question about your pledge. Not saying you didn't pledge. It dosn't have you down as a tier like the other pledgers have but you seemed to have been saying you pledged in your earlier post. So I wanted to know if you had pledged or not.

I agree that the information should have been more clear and on the KS. As I said before I think ALL information posted by the devs should be posted on here as well.

"congrats if this is yours and you are an overflowing fountain of knowledge here"

LOL, far from it. I was on here much much more during the KS time period. Some things that were said way back when just stick with me. Not all but some. This stuck with me because I got into a few very heated fights with trolls on this subject. I am the same as you. 95% of what I know comes from either this site or the Bicycle Walrus videos. The rest is from word of mouth from other posters. I can not say how I knew the 900k wasn't enough to complete the game but I did know it. It's understandable for you to be peeved if your just finding out now.

I can't speak for the others but I didn't tell any one because it never occurred to me it was an issue. I mean it's not like I am going to start off every post I make by saying, "hey, the 900k dosn't cover all the expense of making the base game." It just never came up before. It seemed common knowledge at the time I was more active on here. I am not on here all that much any more. Today and yesterday is the most I have been on here in a month. It just never occurred to me that people didn't know that about the 900k.

I suspect Something similar happened with Caspian. He said it wherever he said it months ago and like me didn't take into account the new people to this site may not be privy to the information. His big mistake is it should be mentioned clearly either on the KS page or somewhere on this site. I don't think he is trying to fool any one. If he were why would he even mention it now a week before the store goes live? Just an unfortunate over-site.

They did tell us before KS and were very clear about it. Just not in a place where everyone could see it is my guess.

"why are you such a jerk"

Well deserved comment.

Aeryn Suun - 3 months ago

To get to the ideal 3M, I think they will have to put out half way working game content other than allowing some investors access to "The Awakening". Posting in game video scenes I do not think will work too long.

Too many developers are throwing out pre-alphas, for the up front money, left and right and are still in pre-alpha after couple of years of development.

I would love to see this come to past successfully. Release date just over a year from now. Do well.

Vucar - 3 months ago
@Aeryn Suun:

Posted By Aeryn Suun at 3:38 PM - Tue Sep 27 2016

To get to the ideal 3M, I think they will have to put out half way working game content other than allowing some investors access to "The Awakening". Posting in game video scenes I do not think will work too long.

Too many developers are throwing out pre-alphas, for the up front money, left and right and are still in pre-alpha after couple of years of development.

I would love to see this come to past successfully. Release date just over a year from now. Do well.

Developers are throwing out pre-alphas for up-front money because in a market that is over-saturated with greed-monger WoW-clones looking for the most efficient cash-grabs, indie developers actually trying to make good unique games cannot compete without sacrificing their vision

Its not that complicated: If you want to do something different in any domain of business, you either need a personal fortune, or you need someone to take a chance on you.

The only people actually surprised that the spring Kickstarter, by itself, was not the last infusion of money they needed are people completely removed from reality or rational thought.

Anconia - 3 months ago

Posted By Caspian at 3:52 PM - Tue Sep 27 2016

Hey Folks, we were approached today by Brianna from MassivelyOP.com with a list of interview questions around our recent update.

I'm in the process of responding to her questions and as soon as the interview goes live will post a link, along with any other clarification I feel necessary, here on the website.

For the time being, know that we've heard your concerns and questions and are seeking the right forum (no pun intended) to answer them.

Thanks!
Caspian

Should be good information for all the people with concerns!

Was the Bicycle Walrus interview ever confirmed?? I know he mentioned it in his latest CoE 2nd Store Announcement video.

Sev - 3 months ago

First, according to what was posted on their kickstarter, I don't see anything that explicitly states, this is all the money they need.

Second, you are either brand new to mmorpgs, (naive), or just a fool to think that 1 million would fund a project of this magnitude. And even if it wasn't it still would cost more.

Thorbrand - 3 months ago

I am glad for the update can't wait to be able to invest. The rest of what I wanted to say I will leave to myself but these people are pretty amazing in this post.

Caspian - 3 months ago

Hey Folks, we were approached today by Brianna from MassivelyOP.com with a list of interview questions around our recent update.

I'm in the process of responding to her questions and as soon as the interview goes live will post a link, along with any other clarification I feel necessary, here on the website.

For the time being, know that we've heard your concerns and questions and are seeking the right forum (no pun intended) to answer them.

Thanks!
Caspian

Jouten - 3 months ago
@Caspian:

Posted By Caspian at 4:52 PM - Tue Sep 27 2016

Hey Folks, we were approached today by Brianna from MassivelyOP.com with a list of interview questions around our recent update.

For your safety... please don't look at their comments at the bottom. It's like a YouTube cesspool down there...

Roudinesco - 3 months ago

Real Open Sandbox !

Antelino - 3 months ago

Ahhh I just misread it then, makes sense!

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago

I don't want to let this degenerate any further from the point I was trying to make, and I don't want to get into a war of words, so I'll be closing on the topic unless Caspian wants to confirm further.

If anyone is interested in indie / risk-capital funded game development :

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/2012/07/38-studios-end-game/

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/23/inside-the-troubled-development-of-star-citizen

Those two different stories have quite a few elements in common, and I'm hoping that's stuff everyone here can learn from.

Antelino - 3 months ago

Actually it looks like there is a gathering every two months, once for the festival and once for the tournament. Two separate events no?

VictoriaRachel - 3 months ago
@Antelino:

Posted By Antelino at 7:26 PM - Tue Sep 27 2016

Actually it looks like there is a gathering every two months, once for the festival and once for the tournament. Two separate events no?

Two separate events but rather different and on different times. A big week long gathering every four months, so that would be more like a convention. Then monthly (4-in-game-years) there will be combat tournaments, which I think will have a very different feel.

Very excited about the Sedecim it seems like it would be something really worth travelling for. I think it will attract a wider range of people that will make it something really worth marking on the calendar. I can imagine going to the tournament if it is close but not really making a long journey.

Kommander Kickass - 3 months ago

Theres effectively an in-game CoE convention every 4 months? Oh HELL yeah I'm excited!

Sektran - 3 months ago

Yesss!

Skarlson - 3 months ago

Thank you for the update. I'll be pleading $120 towards this great game.

Bokimbol - 3 months ago

I can't say it enough. This is why they need ONE central place to give ALL their information on.

Though I and others knew this was NOT all the funding that was needed to make the base game. And No, I am sorry, I have no idea how I knew this but I did know it before the KS. These type of misunderstandings could be avoided if they would stop posting information all over the place. I think what happens is Caspian and the developers know they stated something somewhere but due to oversight the information didn't get to everyone because wherever they said it only some of the people heard about it.

I myself don't go on Discord all that often and I am NEVER on IRC. If someone dosn't repeat what is said on there on here I never hear it.

AwanNA - 3 months ago

I'll be honest, after i read this post a question came to my mind. In DM21gaming first look video of Chronicles of Elyira he did say something about you must work hard to earn a title of some sort. But now you can just buy the title from the online store.

Also, the IP store you guy mention that you can use your IP to purchase additional in-game item. I'd love the idea of "An in-game item must be obtain in-game", I recall that someone mention this . Does that mean that people who have a lot of money to spare will have a higher advantage then the little one?

HarambeFreedomFighter - 3 months ago
@AwanNA:

I think its more of a "Boosted Start" for those that want it. Like you can buy land and carts horses, and novelty stuff like that. NO ingame currency, or armor, swords, building supplies, etc

Dleatherus - 3 months ago

we agree on both wanting this project to succeed

i used my analytical skills, read about the scope of the project, researched how much it takes to bring an ambitious in-depth mmo to launch ready status and understood the 900k to be seed money for the next level of funding

in the business world it's called doing due diligence

the onus for due diligence is on the donor/backer

why? - because no matter how well communicated a situation might seem at the time the communication is issued, invariably scenarios will arise down the road that lead to 'this should have been said, that should have been made more clear'

we're not dealing with a huge multi million dollar mega corporation here

we're looking at a passionate group of gaming geeks (just like many of us that have chosen to back/donate to the project) who are trying to bring their vision of an awesome mmo to reality

it's their first go around at a game

to expect everything to be perfectly communicated, executed on time and on budget, to me, represents naivety on the part of the backer, not a failure on the part of SBS

my comments are based in part upon being a retired manager of a 200 employee multi million dollar company where customer satisfaction was critical - and i can tell you no matter how clearly we thought we had things spelled out prior to a contract being fulfilled, situations would sometimes arise

my comments are not based upon being a fanboi

Drazyhaze - 3 months ago

Just found out about CoE today. I am very eager to see and learn more about this as time goes on.

I'll be honest, the game from what I've seen and read is the MMO that I have always wanted. Something hardcore and everchanging. Something with value and reward on a different level.

However, I've been let down by most MMOs I have played. The one that comes to mind the most recently is Age of Conan and RIFT. Both games that had amazing potential and lost their way.

With that said, I'll support you guys either way and hope you deliver a great game.

Neat to read such an in depth posting about the online shop.

Dleatherus - 3 months ago

not surprising that the same names i saw making the most noise about when the website was down longer than stated, are the same ones making the most noise about how and when and what was said regarding funding

a famous bard once wrote a play titled:

"Much Ado About Nothing"

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago
@Dleatherus:

Posted By Dleatherus at 10:05 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

not surprising that the same names i saw making the most noise about when the website was down longer than stated, are the same ones making the most noise about how and when and what was said regarding funding

a famous bard once wrote a play titled:

"Much Ado About Nothing"

You mean that you're not surprised that the same people are using balanced judgment, as well as reading and analytical skills to acquire a point of view that is as un-tainted by fanboyism as possible?

I would expect that, too.

Dleatherus - 3 months ago
@HolyAvengerOne:

Posted By HolyAvengerOne at 07:50 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

Posted By Dleatherus at 10:05 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

not surprising that the same names i saw making the most noise about when the website was down longer than stated, are the same ones making the most noise about how and when and what was said regarding funding

a famous bard once wrote a play titled:

"Much Ado About Nothing"

You mean that you're not surprised that the same people are using balanced judgment, as well as reading and analytical skills to acquire a point of view that is as un-tainted by fanboyism as possible?

I would expect that, too.

no what i am saying that the same people who when the website was down suddenly became IT and web dev experts, are now expert lawyers, expert economists and expert project funding managers

could things be communicated better? - yes - but that is almost always the case in every scenario in every business

one doesn't need to be a fanboi to not get into a frenzy every time something is perceived as 'wrong' by some of the donors and backers

in fact using balanced judgement as well as reading and analytical skills, ALONG with experience from prior pre launch mmo games can avoid these stupid pointless witch hunts over what was said when and what it meant then and what it means now

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago
@Dleatherus:

Posted By Dleatherus at 11:03 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

Posted By HolyAvengerOne at 07:50 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

Posted By Dleatherus at 10:05 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

not surprising that the same names i saw making the most noise about when the website was down longer than stated, are the same ones making the most noise about how and when and what was said regarding funding

a famous bard once wrote a play titled:

"Much Ado About Nothing"

You mean that you're not surprised that the same people are using balanced judgment, as well as reading and analytical skills to acquire a point of view that is as un-tainted by fanboyism as possible?

I would expect that, too.

no what i am saying that the same people who when the website was down suddenly became IT and web dev experts, are now expert lawyers, expert economists and expert project funding managers

Well, 1) you don't have to be an expert to form an educated opinion; 2) you'll have to admit some people have far more experience than you in all of those domains.

could things be communicated better? - yes - but that is almost always the case in every scenario in every business

So your argument is.. what? It's not ok to say they could do better because people in other businesses suck, too? When you're setting out to accomplish what Caspian and team are trying to accomplish, that's not the way you approach things. You approach things with the attitude of "I'll be the best ever because I judge myself with far stricter standards than I judge my competitors".

If you don't you, you settle for mediocrity and easy excuses and you increase your chance of failing or just succeeding with a "meh".

one doesn't need to be a fanboi to not get into a frenzy every time something is perceived as 'wrong' by some of the donors and backers

in fact using balanced judgement as well as reading and analytical skills, ALONG with experience from prior pre launch mmo games can avoid these stupid pointless witch hunts over what was said when and what it meant then and what it means now

I think those who are not fanbois are the ones who can recognize and constructively criticize to better the project. I'm sure Caspian can find enough yesmen already, so I tell him how it is, because I care for this project.

Dleatherus - 3 months ago
@HolyAvengerOne:

Posted By HolyAvengerOne at 08:14 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

I think those who are not fanbois are the ones who can recognize and constructively criticize to better the project. I'm sure Caspian can find enough yesmen already, so I tell him how it is, because I care for this project.

lol - Caspian and myself have had what could politely termed a discussion that involved a conflicting difference of opinion

so the implication that because my opinion in this scenario favours Caspian/SBS makes me a fanboi/yesman is nothing more than trolling on your part, and i won't bother responding to it further

Jouten - 3 months ago
@HolyAvengerOne:

Posted By HolyAvengerOne at 11:14 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

I think those who are not fanbois are the ones who can recognize and constructively criticize to better the project. I'm sure Caspian can find enough yesmen already, so I tell him how it is, because I care for this project.

We're not fanbois, we're realist. We understand that when backing something in Kickstarter, there's a chance it'll fail regardless of whether or not it succeeds in achieving their posted goal. Having them seek external funding and other sources for revenue is expected. I'm being a benefactor to an idea that I hope will get finished whereas other folks are trying to pennypinch their funding and wanting a physical and tangible dates and outlines (which they're trying so kudos to them). You were supposed to donate with disposable income, not act like an investor into some company shares.

The little quote of "Your funding goal should be the minimum amount you need to make what you promised and fulfill all rewards.", oh they can accomplish that. They can just as easily pop a Derek Smart and release a bare-bone medieval survival simulator, but I'm sure they hold themselves to a higher standard. Kickstarter was a stepping stone and proof of concept to get investors and additional funding.

Hammering them for not being easily transparant... I can understand. However, remember that Caeoltoiri was not part of the Kickstarter originally and was part-time and Souzou was holding down that position while rocking the Technical Designer position. I'm pretty sure there is a post somewhere where Caeoltoiri acknowledges that they're working on being more transparent and keeping us updated and that they are sorry and trying to get a better message across, but all of this was after the Kickstarter finished. But again, they've already apologized (I just can't find the blasted thread!..... they're working on this).

ImmoDivine - 3 months ago

@Markof I spoke to Caspian on discord a few days ago and he said the IP charts would likely not be available before the launch of the store. Hopefully they will be available prior to the end of the 30 days.

@Gromschlog The villager/guild tokens (as I understand them) will be "pledged" to a baron/guild leader during Kingdoms of Elyria. These pledges will result in them being able to select additional plots of land for the settlement. I also believe the guild tokens will be able to be used to increase levels of research for guilds.

markof - 3 months ago
@ImmoDivine:

Posted By ImmoDivine at 3:59 PM - Tue Sep 27 2016

@Markof I spoke to Caspian on discord a few days ago and he said the IP charts would likely not be available before the launch of the store. Hopefully they will be available prior to the end of the 30 days.

@Gromschlog The villager/guild tokens (as I understand them) will be "pledged" to a baron/guild leader during Kingdoms of Elyria. These pledges will result in them being able to select additional plots of land for the settlement. I also believe the guild tokens will be able to be used to increase levels of research for guilds.

Thank you for the info, i do also hope we'll get the charts before the end of the 28 :) days.

About the tokens, i disagree with you. In the discussions we had last week with Caspian about the nobility and land and tax and all he said that we'll be earning tokens during KoE so it sounds hard for them to be used during KoE, on top of that KoE will not have guilds.

Tokens (either guild or villager) will be used either at xpo or after launch. You will indeed at that time pledge them to either guild leader or mayor/baron.

New info is that we can only own one bought token per account

VictoriaRachel - 3 months ago

Jouten saying you are being clear, and being clear are very different. Especially when you combine it with them already announcing other funding for the game, so it was never just a flat $900k as we knew they had another $1mil and that muddies the waters even more. Nothing stated they needed additional funding after the KickStarter to make a minimum viable product unless someone can provide a source that clearly states otherwise, and preferably from the KickStarter or main site.

If they can still complete that promised minimal viable product on the funds they have I am content, and that message from Discord does give some hope that way. But if they need several million for any level completion which the update suggests then I do not think that was clear at all.

Gromschlog - 3 months ago

i dont really understand things such as guild tokens or villager tokens... is there more information about things like that anywhere?

i thought, when i enter the game and start my crafting and eventually happen to get good at crafting, there will be crafting guilds that may have contracts which i can just sign to enter the guild, which then gives me the recipes of the guild but forces me to give the guild some of my income or whatever those contracts are about. the guilds are supposed to have some main quartier in some cities and maybe even their own crafting areas... but what exactly do i need a guild token for? are guilds player-made only? no preexisting NPC Guilds?

and a villager token? i thought, at launch, i create a character or overtake some character and part of that charactercreation is the spawning area where i am. am i not automatically a part of the village i spawn in? if i dont like the area i spawn in, what stops me from just moving to any area i like more? like if i want to be the most intelligent person in the world, then i cannot determine where i live or who my parents are, i will just be limited by intelligence and everything else will be determined by the game. then i spawn somewhere. what stops me from afterwards just moving to my preferred kingdom and serving there with the power of mind my birth granted me?

Antelino - 3 months ago

Mazikar I'd love to hear how you're an investor. Have you been sending SBS hundreds of thousands or are you an entitled KS backer who doesn't understand KS?

markof - 3 months ago

Do not get me wrong, what has been said in this week's Dj needed to be said or rather said again, and on top of that we have a few new infos.

All that is nice and well but i was expecting this DJ NEXT week not now. This DJ exp)lain or tell us again how the online shop will work, it's goal and purpose and a few bits of things about nobility and aristocracy, if it inevitably raise some questions it is preaty much self explanatory. We already know what's going to be sold and for how much.

And all that might have been said next week just before shop opening.

What i was expecting this week was an extended IP chart, some explanations on the IP store and ip items and things like titles, land and such.....

Why ? because next monday i'll be able to spend money into the online store to pledge to some tiers and to buy IP, which is cool and i'm over exited to, but then, i do not know what i'll be able to buy with those IP so it is quite hard to know if i want Ip and how much i want.

fair enough those informations can come next week or any time before the opening of the ip store. BUT if i wait for them to be release before i buy IP and if they are released after the end of kickstarted prolongation offer, i will not be able to exchange £ for IP with the same advantageous ratio. That one was for my selfish greedy me who want at the same time to support a wonderfull game and to get the most of each of my $.

But appart from that selfish greedy motivation, there is also the point that the IP chart will spawn lots of questions and the later those charts are released the shorter we have to ask those questions and the devs have to answer them!

So i'm glad that what has been said in this DJ been said and the points adressed adressed but i'm still in the dark on what i'm going to do, as right now i do not have any more clue as to how to spend my money on to support the game.

I was expecting informations to help me decide how much IP i need and that will be linked to what i can do with IP and how much it will cost!

So i'm disapointed and frightened that i'll be forced to, argh wrong formulation i will not be forced, no one forces me to spend money to support the game i do it because i want, i'm afraid that i'll be spending my money unwisely on things i do not need and/or not enough on things i need/want.

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago
@markof:

Posted By markof at 09:05 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

Do not get me wrong, what has been said in this week's Dj needed to be said or rather said again, and on top of that we have a few new infos.

I think you make a valid point here. It had to be said clearly because it wasn't said clearly before. And no, comment #1,254 out of a thread of 8,000 comments doesn't rank as "clearly" by any communications standard.

Moonlynx - 3 months ago

OK, I will admit confusion on the layaway. Being on a fixed income, I can only swing so much spare cash a month as rent, utilities, and food are necessary for survival. I would love to be able to upgrade to count. If I am reading this right, I would have to be able to pay the full amount during October? How is that a layaway if the amount in full has to be paid all at once? Especially since the package amount is going to increase drastically in November.

Gypsieblue - 3 months ago
@Moonlynx:

Yeah I am curious too how the layaway works. I didn't really see this explained very well in my opinion. However I was going to wait until next week when this is released to see the details.

Zunjin - 3 months ago
@Gypsieblue:

Posted By Gypsieblue at 1:19 PM - Tue Sep 27 2016

Yeah I am curious too how the layaway works. I didn't really see this explained very well in my opinion. However I was going to wait until next week when this is released to see the details.

It is not really a classical layaway like we know from other games, like Crowfall. Where you just buy a package and you can pay additional money, step by step, until a set date.

Lets say you want to buy the Count Tier, but you don't have the full 500 USD. So you could buy the Astronomer Tier for 350 USD. But instead of just paying the 350 USD, you could directly pay 400 USD. The 50 bucks would be counted as unused credit.

Later you could upgrade the Atronomoer to the Count Tier. The upgrade normaly would cost you 150 bucks, but since you still have 50 bucks credit, it would just be 100 USD.

But there is a big catch! The CoE Tiers will increase significantly, after the first 28 days. Which means that the new Count Tier might cost 600 or even 700 USD.

Which means, that people without enough spare cash, that would have to use a layaway system to work around there money problem in the first place, would have to pay 200 bucks more for the Count Tier, which doesn't help with their financial situation in the first place.

This is completely unlike other KS games, like Crowfall, where you directly "buy" the Tier for a fixed price, that you are paying step by step.

Or unlike Camelot Unchained, where Kickstarter Backer are allowed to upgrade within the KS Tiers, years later, until today. They also just pay the old price for the new tiers, despite the fact that there are now different Tiers for the new backers, that are more expensive than the old ones.

MeltedWater - 3 months ago
@Zunjin:

If it works like this, then yeah, that's not "layaway". They don't know what "layaway" even means and they are just throwing around the term to confuse people. If such is the case, they won't see another dime from my pocket. I'm not paying more than $500 TOTAL for Count tier (it's also the tier I'm wanting), regardless of when I can pay for it. I've backed and supported them since Kickstarter and want to support them more, but if they want to screw me over for it then I guess they didn't want my money that badly.

Thor - 3 months ago

What I wonder about is why "burning" your title doesn't give you IP according to what you actually lose by doing it. Since there's a lot of other reasons beyond titles to upgrade your pledge. Wanting alpha access, custom designs etc. Upgrading to Astronomer makes you a baron, but if you upgrade mainly to get early access you might feel a bit cheated if burning your title only gives you enough IP for a trison.

Dianara - 3 months ago
@Thor:

Posted By Thor at 10:40 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

What I wonder about is why "burning" your title doesn't give you IP according to what you actually lose by doing it. Since there's a lot of other reasons beyond titles to upgrade your pledge. Wanting alpha access, custom designs etc. Upgrading to Astronomer makes you a baron, but if you upgrade mainly to get early access you might feel a bit cheated if burning your title only gives you enough IP for a trison.

Interesting that people that get offered something, that they aren't entitled to in the first place, could feel cheated?

They never talked about how much IP you get in return. Everyone knows that.

VictoriaRachel - 3 months ago
  1. Please can you clarify that combing the personal/friends and family investment received along with the Kickstarter target you have sufficient funding to release a minimum viable product?

  2. Can you confirm that this minimum viable product will be released, when completed, if additional funding is not found?

  3. Please can you confirm how much additional funding you need to release a game to standard you are happy with on top of the $2.36mil you have announced so far?

VictoriaRachel - 3 months ago
@VictoriaRachel:

The MassivelyOP article that Caspian mentioned is up and can be found here.

I have looked to see if this answers the questions I raised earlier in the thread:

Posted By VictoriaRachel at 09:40 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

1 Please can you clarify that combing the personal/friends and family investment received along with the Kickstarter target you have sufficient funding to release a minimum viable product?

It is sufficient to produce a minimum viable product.

"As to your specific question, the original $1.2M we raised is being used for our core development and creation of a minimally viable version of the game, which includes the stretch goals we achieved, and any we achieve between now and January 1st."

So, I am not sure exactly where the other $1M dollars they had by the end of the KickStarter fits in though. It doesn't appear to be counted in making the minimum viable product or the completed version of the game.

2 Can you confirm that this minimum viable product will be released, when completed, if additional funding is not found?

No it will not be released without further funding.

"Even if the game were feature-complete with all coding work done, it’ll still require additional resources to get the world fully built, tested, marketed, and the servers brought online."

So while it will produce a minimum viable product it is not really that viable as we will not be able to play it.

3 Please can you confirm how much additional funding you need to release a game to standard you are happy with on top of the $2.36mil you have announced so far?

$2 to $3 million (which seems quite a large range as it is an approx. 25% increase).

"What we said in our update was that we were going to need about $2 Million more than the money raised thus far, and $3 Million would be even better."

However, this is the part where they mention the $1.2mil rather than the ~$2mil that both I and the interviewer asks about so it is still not entirely clear what that other million has gone.

In all the interview mostly answers my questions though so things are still not clear. Not sure exactly how I feel about a minimum viable product that is not actually viable but that is something for me to ponder on.

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago
@VictoriaRachel:

Posted By VictoriaRachel at 04:40 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

  1. Please can you clarify that combing the personal/friends and family investment received along with the Kickstarter target you have sufficient funding to release a minimum viable product?

  2. Can you confirm that this minimum viable product will be released, when completed, if additional funding is not found?

  3. Please can you confirm how much additional funding you need to release a game to standard you are happy with on top of the $2.36mil you have announced so far?

Precisely the questions I would like to see answered in the clear. I don't believe Caspian has done that on Discord yesterday, hence my previous re-reply in the current thread.

Bokimbol - 3 months ago
@VictoriaRachel:

Posted By VictoriaRachel at 04:40 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

  1. Please can you clarify that combing the personal/friends and family investment received along with the Kickstarter target you have sufficient funding to release a minimum viable product?

  2. Can you confirm that this minimum viable product will be released, when completed, if additional funding is not found?

  3. Please can you confirm how much additional funding you need to release a game to standard you are happy with on top of the $2.36mil you have announced so far?

Caspian said,

"That being said, the $900,000 we raised during Kickstarter isn't enough to finish Chronicles of Elyria. The reality is that Soulbound Studios is going to require another $2 Million more than that to get anywhere near completion. And with server hosting fees, QA work, etc., it would really be better if that was up around $3M instead."

I took that as meaning they raised $1,361,435 so subtract 900,000 from that and you get $461,435 towards the (lets say 3 million more) Now they already had $500,000 and they said they got another $500,000 so thats $1,461,435. So it seems to me they need roughly another 1.5 million dollars. The only question is if the $461,435 above the $900,000 will be applied to the base game instead of the KS goals if they need it.

Or thats the way I read it any way.

Wolfguarde - 3 months ago

Very informative update. Still not sure if I'll up my pledge, but I'm looking forward to the addition of the store.

I've a couple of questions after digesting the info in this update.

  • To clarify: Do villager tokens add NPCs to settlements/guild houses? (Stupid question, I know, but somehow I missed the first round of info on these)

  • Out of curiosity, what's the highest stretch goal you predict the next stage of funding to reach?

Bobby Richfort - 3 months ago

Hey all I have a burning question! I have currently purchased a count title. Am I able to purchase another title? Also, would I be able to place them next to each other?

cerealkiller195 - 3 months ago

Glad I get a second chance to pitch in, the first time the kickstarter ran I wanted to pledge but didn't have the money on hand.

Jouten - 3 months ago

Bruh, you're a benefactor to the game, not an investor; that's how Kickstarter always is. Wasn't this settled on Discord? Them getting more money isn't a bad thing and developing an MMO obviously costs more than $900k. Donating otherwise without any of those assumptions is foolhardy and shouldn't warrant a "pitchfork and torch" mentality when they're working on getting more funds as we speak.


-Caspian

"A. We won't be running another Kickstarter for this game. While we hope to surpass our goal with this Kickstarter campaign, and anything above $900K would certainly aid development, another Kickstarter isn't a viable solution. Beyond this funding we have contributed $500K of our own funds and have $500K committed from friends & family. After that we'll look at other options for funding, including private investors, but we would sure love for our only requirements be to please the fans."

"A. We understand it will take more than $900K to accomplish all of our goals. That is merely all we need from Kickstarter to help us out. We've invested $500K of our own money & have another $500K committed from friends & family. Plus we'll look for investors for the remaining amount needed."


Direct Kickstarter Link

Also remember folks, SB weren't terribly great at community outreach at the time (bless your heart Caeoltoiri for amending this and being part of the team now) so this intel was known by those who were thirsty for new details.

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago
@Jouten:

In Kickstarter documentation, here : https://www.kickstarter.com/help/handbook/funding?ref=handbook_index

"Your funding goal should be the minimum amount you need to make what you promised and fulfill all rewards."

You can't then come and say that the KS goals and rewards might depend on external factors, especially that it wasn't detailed in the "Risks" section of the KS. That's just not what Kickstarter means.

Consider this scale

  1. No funding
  2. Funding required to launch a KS campaign
  3. Funding required to fulfill all KS rewards and objective
  4. Funding required to fulfill the full CoE vision

You can say "Oh the KS won't be enough to do #3", but you can't say "Oh the KS won't be enough to do #2". You can argue all you want about how things have been presented, but it is assumed that if you launch a KS, you have reasonable expectations that seeing it funded will give you the rewards stated.

Now are we saying that the KS isn't enough to realize #2 or #3? Are we looking to raise more money to realize #2 or #3?

It's not about how much it takes to make an MMO, or being honest or transparent. It's about properly communicating and setting expectations, and this was not done properly here.

I don't want a refund. I want this project to succeed. I want to hear about the plan to stop those communications and shore up the production pipelines so that you stop hurting your bottom-line and long-term viability in basic organizational missteps.

OrangeBoy - 3 months ago

Vermidian, did you just say that not having any combat would be justifiable because of all the other mechanics that no one has seen yet?

Let's not float that idea around, brother.

LordBananas - 3 months ago

While this update answered a lot of my questions regarding the store, I was wondering if, for the Tournament of Champions, there could be "Black Knight" type participants. That is, knights whom wish to be anonymous (Maybe even sent by evil people, oooo.) that can participate, or even try to sabotage the tournament.

Sev - 4 months ago

The simple thing is that if the combat is not fun, it's going to be very hard for the rest of the game to make up for it. That applies to all the core gameplay mechanics that I'm very interested in hearing about, but of course like everyone actually seeing in action.

So, even with all these cool updates with all the fancy stuff they have planned to have in the game with different events like Sedecim and Tournament of Champions, it won't hold up if the core gameplay is bad.

Zunjin - 3 months ago
@Sev:

Yes a game has to be fun, but a game is more than the summary of its parts. And I never really cared for (much) for the combat system of any game, because I am able to adjust very easily to my surroundings, it is a skill humans developed over millions of years.

And fun is a very subjectiv. I for one loved the Age of Conan Combo Systems, where every attack hat multiple satges,which made you hit multiple directional keys. Fur me and many people that was fun, other people - maybe in the same numbers - hated it.

But in the end... if the games right, I could even live with old, traditional Tab-Targetting System.

Sharayah - 3 months ago
@Sev:

Posted By Sev at 9:29 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

The simple thing is that if the combat is not fun, it's going to be very hard for the rest of the game to make up for it. That applies to all the core gameplay mechanics that I'm very interested in hearing about, but of course like everyone actually seeing in action.

So, even with all these cool updates with all the fancy stuff they have planned to have in the game with different events like Sedecim and Tournament of Champions, it won't hold up if the core gameplay is bad.

Given that the game is still in the earlier stages of development, it seems a bit premature to be pessimistic about the gameplay being bad. The combat system has so much more developing to go, including tons of player testing stages.

Caspian and the rest of the crew really pay close attention to what the community says. Once we get a chance to try out the gameplay, that's when complaints should be raised, when there's actually something specific to complain about. If you explain the specific issues you have exactly, they'll be able to go right to the heart of the problem and fix what's wrong.

Me, I'm an optimist, so hearing about fancy things like the Sedecim just makes me more intrigued. It's going to be so awesome seeing the massive crowds and festivals!

Vermidian - 4 months ago
@Sev:

Posted By Sev at 11:29 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

The simple thing is that if the combat is not fun, it's going to be very hard for the rest of the game to make up for it. That applies to all the core gameplay mechanics that I'm very interested in hearing about, but of course like everyone actually seeing in action.

So, even with all these cool updates with all the fancy stuff they have planned to have in the game with different events like Sedecim, it won't hold up if the core gameplay is bad.

I think that is largely just your own opinion, as there are plenty of gamers in this community would gladly play the game without any combat at all. The other mechanics and the world itself are enough incentive to play the game alone.

OrangeBoy - 3 months ago
@Vermidian:

Posted By Vermidian at 9:30 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

Posted By Sev at 11:29 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

The simple thing is that if the combat is not fun, it's going to be very hard for the rest of the game to make up for it. That applies to all the core gameplay mechanics that I'm very interested in hearing about, but of course like everyone actually seeing in action.

So, even with all these cool updates with all the fancy stuff they have planned to have in the game with different events like Sedecim, it won't hold up if the core gameplay is bad.

I think that is largely just your own opinion, as there are plenty of gamers in this community would gladly play the game without any combat at all. The other mechanics and the world itself are enough incentive to play the game alone.

........ What are you talking about?

AdinX - 4 months ago

I can't wait to explore the world and see all the unique kingdoms and different lands with each Sedecim. I just texted my girlfriend (@ 12am midnight while she's conked out) I'm so excited for it! The best weaponsmiths all displaying their finest blades along the streets, exotic smelling foods of every type around every corner, banners and music... And the tournament of champions! That I gotta see.

Equinoxium - 4 months ago

The Sedecim is looking good.

Aqueous - 4 months ago

I love when the updates are big :)

mace771 - 4 months ago

big respect to the investment you, your family and friends have made

Caspian - 4 months ago

There seems to be some confusion about this update, so I posted the following edit to the section on additional funding:

After looking at comments on here and Kickstarter it appears as though some people are interpreting this Update as us coming back requesting more money from the community. That's not the case. This post wasn't meant as a request for more money. It was just explaining that in our effort to raise the additional money required to complete CoE, having additional funds through our online store is a nice addition. It relieves stress, and minimizes the amount we need to get from external investors.

We've been very transparent from the beginning that $900k was all we needed from Kickstarter to get the game done, not that it's all we'd needed. We have, from the very beginning, planned on pursuing additional methods of funding.

For context, here's a Q&A from a Reddit IAmA we did during the Kickstarter, and I believe posted on Kickstarter as well:

Q. How can you possibly make an MMO with only $900k USD?

A. - We understand it will take more than $900K to accomplish all of our goals. That is merely all we need from Kickstarter to help us out. We've invested $500K of our own money & have another $500K committed from friends & family. Plus we'll look for investors for the remaining amount needed.

MeltedWater - 4 months ago

I'm still confused on the layaway option, but I'll figure it out October 3rd I guess.

Mazikar - 4 months ago

Interesting update. I am curious to see the store and continued funding and while its brave to say you need more cash I am wondering how many would have backed if you said this up front during the kickstarter. I am neutral with this update, not mad, not excited.

I am a long time backer of Star Citizen, and Shroud of the Avatar. Both games sold digital items after the game started development with game stores, I bought stuff from both. Neither of them though came out and said directly that they needed more money to continue. I am curious to see the reactions here.

Vigorish - 3 months ago
@Mazikar:

Posted By Mazikar at 8:50 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

Interesting update. I am curious to see the store and continued funding and while its brave to say you need more cash I am wondering how many would have backed if you said this up front during the kickstarter. I am neutral with this update, not mad, not excited.

I am a long time backer of Star Citizen, and Shroud of the Avatar. Both games sold digital items after the game started development with game stores, I bought stuff from both. Neither of them though came out and said directly that they needed more money to continue. I am curious to see the reactions here.

It was always the initial round of funding. Unlike the cash grabs you mentioned that burned me as well. SBS has always been forthright about this.

Caspian - 4 months ago
@Mazikar:

Posted By Mazikar at 6:50 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

Interesting update. I am curious to see the store and continued funding and while its brave to say you need more cash I am wondering how many would have backed if you said this up front during the kickstarter. I am neutral with this update, not mad, not excited.

I am a long time backer of Star Citizen, and Shroud of the Avatar. Both games sold digital items after the game started development with game stores, I bought stuff from both. Neither of them though came out and said directly that they needed more money to continue. I am curious to see the reactions here.

Hey Mazikar, we've said from the beginning that CoE wouldn't be do-able with just $900k. There's need from external investors as well. The $900k was all we needed from Kickstarter, so we can achieve what's necessary to reach the next round of funding. Hopefully that clarifies. And hopefully, hearing that a game like CoE isn't attempting to be done with just $900k isn't a surprise.

Mazikar - 3 months ago
@Caspian:

I am going to quote "Why Kickstarter?"

"We've turned to Kickstarter to fund this project because traditional game publishers won't take this risk. They are incentivized to clone the latest success and merely re-skin it. But not all players want a WoW clone or to play the same game every time. Our innovative ideas come FROM gamers FOR gamers. WE want to play this game, so we turn to YOU to help make that happen.

We also realize that to effectively complete all of these amazing ideas will require a lot of cash. That's why we've invested half a million dollars to self-fund pre-production thus far and have another $500K committed from investors.

We also promised to only go to Kickstarter once we had a playable demo (combat demo released at PAX East) and substantial development to show. This is not just a concept that we're presenting. It's a game in the making that we need your help to bring to fruition."

Caspian that is what I and most others will remember from the kickstarter. There was no explanation of needing further funding, and its obvious to anyone with a business degree why. Do not toy with me, I am a potential investor. From this point on though I need to know where you need to be and where you are. Post current earnings and your required minimum goal or I will not invest one more cent.

Bokimbol - 3 months ago
@Mazikar:

Posted By Mazikar at 04:47 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

I am going to quote "Why Kickstarter?"

"We've turned to Kickstarter to fund this project because traditional game publishers won't take this risk. They are incentivized to clone the latest success and merely re-skin it. But not all players want a WoW clone or to play the same game every time. Our innovative ideas come FROM gamers FOR gamers. WE want to play this game, so we turn to YOU to help make that happen.

We also realize that to effectively complete all of these amazing ideas will require a lot of cash. That's why we've invested half a million dollars to self-fund pre-production thus far and have another $500K committed from investors.

We also promised to only go to Kickstarter once we had a playable demo (combat demo released at PAX East) and substantial development to show. This is not just a concept that we're presenting. It's a game in the making that we need your help to bring to fruition."

Caspian that is what I and most others will remember from the kickstarter. There was no explanation of needing further funding, and its obvious to anyone with a business degree why. Do not toy with me, I am a potential investor. From this point on though I need to know where you need to be and where you are. Post current earnings and your required minimum goal or I will not invest one more cent.

It's nice to quote something but just because he didn't say it in one particular place dosn't mean he didn't say it somewhere else. You did the wise thing in not pledging if you didn't see info that was important to you but did you ever think of asking someone on the boards. maybe you missed something as you did in this case.

I am a bit confused. You haven't pledged anything and your a "potential investor" but then you say "I will not invest one MORE cent"

And I am at a loss. Didn't he just give you a financial breakdown of what he has and what he needs at the start of this thread? If he tells you something and it dosn't register in your mind, thats not really his fault.

Caspian said this right here in the first "titled" paragraph.

"So, back in May we launched a Kickstarter to raise $900,000. That money continues to be used as our seed funding for the development of Chronicles of Elyria. For those unfamiliar with a seed round, that's when you raise enough money to put together a prototype for further investment rounds, such as a Series A.

To entrepreneurs, and to those outside the gaming industry, a strategy of using the money earned in each round of funding to reach the next one is perfectly normal. But in games, especially with crowdfunding, it can make backers nervous to hear that a game isn't fully funded yet. Heck, it makes us a little nervous.

That being said, the $900,000 we raised during Kickstarter isn't enough to finish Chronicles of Elyria. The reality is that Soulbound Studios is going to require another $2 Million more than that to get anywhere near completion. And with server hosting fees, QA work, etc., it would really be better if that was up around $3M instead."

And somehow I and many others knew the game needed more money before the KS. It seems you somehow missed that he just told you in this very thread how much he needed and you missed that they said before the KS they needed more money than the KS alone. The info is out there. Yes, it could be placed more often in one central place but saying that it was never said just isn't true.

Mazikar - 3 months ago
@Bokimbol:

@Bokimbol - OK look I didn't think I needed to explain that I pulled that quote from kickstarter where I pledged. Nice to quote relevance and I see you had nothing to counter. I pledged, thus I am invested but I doubt I would have invested knowing that they only wanted to get 1/4 from the kickstarter and the rest from whatever. Your quote is obviously long AFTER kickstarter thus irrelevant to my complaint.

I am not alone in feeling slighted. Starting a kickstarter knowing you will need more but not mentioning it in the kickstarter is deceptive. Cut and dry. Others knew they needed more because I guess at some point they said it but never relayed it to everyone. I am playing other games and I am involved in other communities, congrats if this is yours and you are an overflowing fountain of knowledge here. I simply keep up with the headlines. This game is years out.

Somehow you and many others knew that this game needed more cash and you didn't tell me or anyone else caught off guard so I say to you why are you such a jerk, you and your friends? Sadly it is true that they didn't tell us until AFTER KICKSTARTER and AFTER I gave them cash, bite me.

VictoriaRachel - 3 months ago
@Bokimbol:

Posted By Bokimbol at 2:11 PM - Tue Sep 27 2016

And somehow I and many others knew the game needed more money before the KS. It seems you somehow missed that he just told you in this very thread how much he needed and you missed that they said before the KS they needed more money than the KS alone. The info is out there. Yes, it could be placed more often in one central place but saying that it was never said just isn't true.

Do you have a source for before the KickStarter where they confirm they will need additional funds after the KickStarter has ended in order to release even a minimal viable product?

Jouten - 3 months ago
@VictoriaRachel:

Posted By Mazikar at 9:50 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

I am a long time backer of Star Citizen, and Shroud of the Avatar.

Mmm, who are you in SotA? Cuz it was pretty obvious they needed cash early on, even went a few of the Google Hangouts with them and I know a few of their devs (Rustic Dragon and Tassilo in particular).

Posted By VictoriaRachel at 09:21 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

Do you have a source for before the KickStarter where they confirm they will need additional funds after the KickStarter has ended in order to release even a minimal viable product?

I myself can't find a direct link or quote to them saying needed more money before the end of the Kickstarter. However, Caspian has said:

so in some interview, somewhere, they said they'd need it.

Regardless he also just said on this thread that "We've been very transparent from the beginning that $900k was all we needed from Kickstarter to get the game done, not that it's all we'd needed."

That "from Kickstarter" sounds like they had a general plan on how much they needed for that phase and how much was necessary for them to show potential investors they have people who are interested in the product (I can't find a link but Kingdom Come sorta had the same shpeal in a forum or video somewhere and they're going strong). There was another quote on Discord from Caspian saying that the additional cash from the Store will "not be expected" or "not be necessary" (gotta dig up that quote but at work atm).

So all-in-all, don't stress; it sounds like they have investors lined up or at the very least trying to get more money without sucking us dry. They can't give a solid endgoal number because this is a new concept of a game, there IS no existing reference out there to show how much money is needed to fund something like this. And if you're worried that your money is going to go to waste, then I gotta ask, have you ever backed a Kickstarter project before this?

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago
@Caspian:

Posted By Caspian at 11:01 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

Posted By Mazikar at 6:50 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

Interesting update. I am curious to see the store and continued funding and while its brave to say you need more cash I am wondering how many would have backed if you said this up front during the kickstarter. I am neutral with this update, not mad, not excited.

I am a long time backer of Star Citizen, and Shroud of the Avatar. Both games sold digital items after the game started development with game stores, I bought stuff from both. Neither of them though came out and said directly that they needed more money to continue. I am curious to see the reactions here.

Hey Mazikar, we've said from the beginning that CoE wouldn't be do-able with just $900k. There's need from external investors as well. The $900k was all we needed from Kickstarter, so we can achieve what's necessary to reach the next round of funding. Hopefully that clarifies. And hopefully, hearing that a game like CoE isn't attempting to be done with just $900k isn't a surprise.

It is not a surprise, but nor was it communicated properly. Right now, that quote from above, the only place that was possible to see it is buried under 8k posts in the "Comments" section on the KS.

It was never explicitly stated in the KS under the "Risks" section, as it should have.

Just admit that there was poor communications there again, and maybe tell us what are your plans to make sure those communications blunders will become less frequent?

Bokimbol - 3 months ago
@HolyAvengerOne:

Posted By HolyAvengerOne at 01:13 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

Posted By Caspian at 11:01 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

Posted By Mazikar at 6:50 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

Interesting update. I am curious to see the store and continued funding and while its brave to say you need more cash I am wondering how many would have backed if you said this up front during the kickstarter. I am neutral with this update, not mad, not excited.

I am a long time backer of Star Citizen, and Shroud of the Avatar. Both games sold digital items after the game started development with game stores, I bought stuff from both. Neither of them though came out and said directly that they needed more money to continue. I am curious to see the reactions here.

Hey Mazikar, we've said from the beginning that CoE wouldn't be do-able with just $900k. There's need from external investors as well. The $900k was all we needed from Kickstarter, so we can achieve what's necessary to reach the next round of funding. Hopefully that clarifies. And hopefully, hearing that a game like CoE isn't attempting to be done with just $900k isn't a surprise.

It is not a surprise, but nor was it communicated properly. Right now, that quote from above, the only place that was possible to see it is buried under 8k posts in the "Comments" section on the KS.

It was never explicitly stated in the KS under the "Risks" section, as it should have.

Just admit that there was poor communications there again, and maybe tell us what are your plans to make sure those communications blunders will become less frequent?

While I admit that there are times were they maybe need to expand on their information and clear some things up it is still very early in the games development. Also, many games don't tell us anything at this stage of development. And they really need to have this site be the place where EVERYTHING they say about the game is posted. I don't mean it can't be posted on other places first but it has to ALWAYS be posted on here.

But in this particular case about the funding I really don't see where all the confusion was. I thought they were very clear that they needed more money to make the game and posted it many times at different places. Hell, I was in a few troll fights with a couple of trolls on here about this very thing that served to spread this info pretty well.

OrangeBoy - 4 months ago
@Caspian:

Posted By Caspian at 8:01 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

Posted By Mazikar at 6:50 PM - Mon Sep 26 2016

Interesting update. I am curious to see the store and continued funding and while its brave to say you need more cash I am wondering how many would have backed if you said this up front during the kickstarter. I am neutral with this update, not mad, not excited.

I am a long time backer of Star Citizen, and Shroud of the Avatar. Both games sold digital items after the game started development with game stores, I bought stuff from both. Neither of them though came out and said directly that they needed more money to continue. I am curious to see the reactions here.

Hey Mazikar, we've said from the beginning that CoE wouldn't be do-able with just $900k. There's need from external investors as well. The $900k was all we needed from Kickstarter, so we can achieve what's necessary to reach the next round of funding. Hopefully that clarifies.

If I win the lottery I'll hmu for my options on how to be an investor. Maybe if I back the project with 10 million, I get to take a shower with the development team? After dinner ofc.

Serverus1 - 4 months ago

Well you guys answered a critical piece of information regarding persistent world duties. Having an online / phone based app that'll allow you to perform many of your duties remotely is all we ask for. That will be awesome for the 9-5, 6 Day of week working individuals, who have a family and RL responsibilities. Thank you for considering us! ~Serverus, Knight of Avalon. :D

Zunjin - 3 months ago
@Serverus1:

Posted By Serverus1 at 03:43 AM - Tue Sep 27 2016

Well you guys answered a critical piece of information regarding persistent world duties. Having an online / phone based app that'll allow you to perform many of your duties remotely is all we ask for. That will be awesome for the 9-5, 6 Day of week working individuals, who have a family and RL responsibilities. Thank you for considering us! ~Serverus, Knight of Avalon. :D

Only if such a programm could be used by everyone, using every OS, including Blackberry and Windows Phone which at least in Europe is as common as iOS with Androd in a big lead.

Or just make it accessable through a browser. Which could be the best solution, since programming 3 apps would be quite expansive.

Count Fjorlund - 4 months ago

Fantastic update! This answered some burning questions of mine.

As someone who naturally spends about 60 hours a week on video games, your time estimates make it sound like I'll more than have my business covered. Very reassuring.

Sneezewortt - 4 months ago

Awesome update, super excited ty!

Sev - 4 months ago

Good update. I am surprised at anyone that didn't understand that mmos cost a lot of money. 1 million is nothing, and soulbound will as they said need a lot more. While, I have major concerns for this mmo as a whole, their stance on funding the game is very normal. That being said, don't get mad if the game doesn't turn out to be as great as you hoped and demand a refund for giving them money early on and then go on a tirade about how they stole your money for a shit game.

We all take a risk funding games early.

Illuminati - 4 months ago

I had posted about a long cycle created by 7 day years with 4 day seasons (on average). The cycle was 16 weeks, and thought it would be cool to have some special event that could signify the passing of the cycle. This sedicim is a great "event".

I'm sure this was thought up way before my idea, but I'm taking credit!!! 😋

Selique - 4 months ago

My wallet is ready.

Josh_2486 - 4 months ago
@Selique:

LMAO XD

Anconia - 4 months ago

Thanks Caspian for the clarification on IP, now I just have to wait for the IP store to see what will help build up my county!

I love the idea of the 16 year fair and the Tournament of Champions! I know a lot of people were already coming up with similar ideas. The Sedecim actually being a game mechanic makes for more interesting stories. Red Wedding-like event anyone???

I know the community will do their best to get the word out on the new store opening. Let's make this round of funding even better than the Kickstarter!!

Sorrowfox - 4 months ago

Good read. this fox approves.

thecoldones - 4 months ago

I must say I am super exited for the release of the store. Is there any time frame we can expect it to be up? By that I mean, when during the day of october 3rd specifically. I like many other want to purchase a limited in number pledge and so, I would like to buy it as soon as the store is up and running.

Sorrowfox - 4 months ago
@thecoldones:

Oct 3rd I believe.