7 August

Jousting in Chronicles of Elyria

By Kaizen

Greetings, Elyrians!

As we mentioned in the State of Elyria, we're taking a different approach to how we document and share our progress with you. Based off of what we teased in the State of Elyria, some astute community members made assumptions on what we'd be working on next and what we'd be showing off at PAX West 2017. And those players were absolutely right! As we inch closer to PAX West, we wanted to use this opportunity to test out the format of our new quest journals, and reveal a small bit of the progress we've made on our in-development jousting mechanics for Chronicles of Elyria.

Normally we'd do a single quest introduction at a time, however as we're focused almost entirely as a team on our PAX West 2017 Experience, we're introducing three parties all working together to complete this grand adventure. As we move forward with our new party introductions, we wanted to attempt a system where we liberally extend our party analog to what you'd normally see on a quest write-up in most MMORPG's. So expect to see the following information in our party introductions:

  • Party Name
  • Party Members & Roles
  • Quest Objectives
  • Rumors (aka community involvement)

While we'd normally do one of these write-ups at the very beginning of a quest, we've already started our parties and production is in full swing. This means we've already got some early concept work (and prototyping) in place - some of which we can share with you today, and some of which you'll have to wait for our mid-production update.

Speaking of which, Vye will provide a production update along the way as our parties make progress on their journeys. You can expect to see more production media then. With no further delay, meet the current Soulbound Studios adventuring parties, learn a bit about the new jousting mechanics, and see what we'll be showing off at PAX West this year!

Knights of Hastilude

We start off with the Knights of Hastilude, which consists of adventurers from the design, engineering, and animation guilds. On the design side of things, Creative Director Caspian, UI/UX Designer Death, and World Builder Souzou are focusing on building a fun and engaging experience. To ensure the game-play features we build do the things we need from an engineering perspective, Engineer Sekmu, Engineer TripNull, and Lead Programmer Cynax join the party. Wrapping things up in this party: Lead Animator Mudokon and Technical Animator Strider will contribute their rigging and animation know-how to help the party achieve their goals.

The designers of the Knights are responsible for defining the rules around our jousting system, including targeting and mounted movement mechanics (hyah!). Additionally, the Knights need to build the user interface, along with the collision detection of jousting hit boxes, state changes for scoring and the act of jousting itself, the core animations of the feature, and the jousting and hit-reaction animations.

How will jousting work in Chronicles of Elyria you ask? Well, there are three implied phases to jousting: approach, aiming, and impact. During the approach phase, players will have the option to enter combat mode or urge their mount on to increase its speed. During the aiming phase, a player can make minor adjustments to the mount's direction and enter the aiming mode to aim where their lance will strike. Players can also clutch their lance to increase its potential to unseat their opponent. Once clutched, players lose the ability to control the majority of their character's movement before impact happens (roughly 1-2 seconds), giving them a brief moment to let the tension build before the lances shatter.

Note that the three phases are logical, and not actual phases. It'll feel like one, seamless experience as players begin their run down the tilt-yard, lower their lance, aim, and strike. Also note that these mechanics are the same in a structured jousting experience as they are on the battlefield, and careful attention has been paid to make sure the mechanics work equally well in both cases.

Below is the flowchart Death created to not only illustrate the intended design of the jousting experience, but to help guide the production process as well:

We're still fine tuning this experience, so some things are subject to change. But we can't wait for you to jump into the action and joust alongside other PAX-goers!

The Tournament Armory

Next up, we have The Tournament Armory - the group of adventurers in charge of creating the equipment for the knights and steeds - including armor and lance. Technical Art Lead Wiz, Character Artist Irreverent, Art Director Heat, Animator Racronos, and Character Artist Vanimus Prime have assembled to take on these tasks.

The Armory has three main quests we're tracking: they need to create the character and horse armors, the equipment (such as poles and lances), and how the lance breaks and splinters.

We're still defining which armor sets we'll throw on the digital caravan we're bringing to PAX. Until then, here's a look at some of the armor concepts crafted by Heat.

Tiltyard Vanguards

Lastly, we have an adventuring party that consists of Environment and FX guild members. With Technical Art Lead Wiz, Art Director Heat, Animator Racronos, Environment Artist Raevantiel, Sound Engineer Vandermast, and Programmer Michael in this content creation stable, they are tasked with no easy quests.

Namely, they are responsible for creating a jousting map with practice and competitive tiltyards, the lighting of the map, particles for mounted movement and sparks for hit reactions, sound effects for movement and combat, and a background track for the demo experience.

While the Vanguards have already made great progress on the arena, here's a concept to hold you over until Vye's production update.

What's Next?

Because of the studio's focus on this specific feature for PAX, we've included each party's quest goals here. Generally, these future quest blogs will look at what an individual party is working on. But it's all hands on deck, as the quests need to be completed in time to thoroughly test and polish the experience before it's on the show floor at PAX West 2017.

We know that you probably have a few questions about the jousting experience, so we'll be holding a brief, live Twitch Q&A on Thursday, August 10 at 1PM PDT / 4PM EDT / 8PM GMT / 8PM UTC. Use this post to ask your questions!

But what about community involvement? If you're going to be at PAX West in Seattle this year, stop by our booth and give us feedback. This is the first opportunity you'll have to get your hands on it, test it out, get a feel for it, and let us know how we're doing. And if you're good enough, you may even qualify for an hourly prize or the ability to compete in our daily tournament!

And that does it for now! Stay tuned to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube for more updates. Until next time...

Discuss

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Jouten - 17 hours ago

If you all want more information regarding jousting and courtly combat, Tobias Capwell recently did an AMA on reddit and he IS the defacto know it all for armor, to the point that he actually escorted King Richard III's coffin, an American from California ending up in King Richard's court.

Here's an example of the The Grand Tournament of St. Wendel that has a LOT of information in it. He also linked a lot of videos in his answers.

Rojinn - 4 days ago

This will be pretty cool, especially for the ruling class. I will probably be a explorer, blacksmith, soldier type, at least at first, and will not be jousting. It would be interesting to be able to follow a certain knight, etc. and bet on the tournaments. If this game happens, it is going to be epic.

Keridwyn44 - 2 days ago
@Rojinn:

I second the ways mentioned for non-jousters to participate!

Maulvorn - 1 week ago

Can we do more then Lancing? Throughout history much of horse usage has been to skirmish and to harass the enemy using javelins, are we able to throw javs at enemies at launch?

CaptainSeli - 1 week ago

I didn't read all 5 pages looking for questions so I apologize if this was asked already but!

Since horses are not ideal for all biomes, will we see jousting (or forms of it) on other mounts and in other tribes?

MoonChaser - 1 week ago

How is collision planned to be like in CoE?

Is it a custom model based on parameters such as weight and velocity for momentum or will it be processed by an actual physics engine?
If the latter is the case, will it be calculated by workers of the SpatialOS or in UE4 on client side?

Follow-up: In what ways do you expect damage to depend on momentum or other factors in general without diving too deep into balancing yet?

Zerbe - 1 week ago

Will we be able to put our family coat of arms on barding, or have it dyed to our hose colors?

LorenzW - 1 week ago
@Zerbe:

Posted By Zerbe at 2:36 PM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Will we be able to put our family coat of arms on barding, or have it dyed to our hose colors?

I'm guessing that for the PAX demo, that would be a no, at least in terms of exactly matching, since family colours and Coats of Arms are features not yet iterated on by the team.

I think that would be something they will have ready for Kingdoms of Elyria and MUD, once they are persistent (MUD will exist for several months as a testing ground with no permanence).

However, being able to perhaps choose between a couple different armour sets and colours might be feasible, particularly given that we do have concept art of multiple types, both in Character and Mount armours.

GregFrost - 1 week ago

Question

Will they have shields like history? And when both characters get knocked off will there be a sword fight to see who wins?

RedAngel - 1 week ago

I see the prospect of this as a test for mounted combat later on but it feels like a random and gimicky thing to make right now.

Varhukan - 1 week ago

Looks amazing, I am getting tired of reading comments about realism. I want a video game that has good mechanics(not realistic 100%, minimum 25%). One that flows so well and plays great. I believe CoE will be that game. So don't get too bogged down, and I know many on the job want that extra realism but please don't risk better game play so that there is one less critic about some realistic function that really bogs down something great. And as always I wish the questers well and they need to kick a** at Pax West, wish I could go this year as well lol, good luck. Varhukan

Maulvorn - 1 week ago
@Varhukan:

Posted By Varhukan at 03:48 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Looks amazing, I am getting tired of reading comments about realism. I want a video game that has good mechanics(not realistic 100%, minimum 25%). One that flows so well and plays great. I believe CoE will be that game. So don't get too bogged down, and I know many on the job want that extra realism but please don't risk better game play so that there is one less critic about some realistic function that really bogs down something great. And as always I wish the questers well and they need to kick a** at Pax West, wish I could go this year as well lol, good luck. Varhukan

SBS loves attention to detail, it shows in the work they do; we are helping point out the details and how to improve those details.

Hieronymus - 1 week ago

Love the idea and it's a very innovative concept to add to an MMO!

However, there seems to be two concepts at odds in the design of Elyria. On one hand, you're shooting for a game that is not a Medieval simulator and so you've introduced the concept of tribes that move the game pretty far away from any sort of connection to human history and a clearly medieval setting. But on the other hand, other elements of the game, like the "dance of dynasties", guilds, jousting, armor/gear and all of the architecture showcased thus far harkens back to the middle ages of Human history.

I'm not sure what this mix will result in, but I think it would have been better to simply set the game in the European middle ages. It mostly lends itself to that anyway and so it'll be hard to imagine Elyria as something dramatically different.

Eadric - 1 week ago

Very excited to see the final product

FASHION - 1 week ago

How do you foresee "staged battles" functioning mechanically?

Ravenlute - 1 week ago

Will you have female models available to choose as jousters?

Lady Grace - 1 week ago
@Ravenlute:

Posted By Nahkahiiri at 12:28 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Posted By Jouten at 1:36 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

So here's my question, will you be able to perform the following actions on a horse; use the butt end of the lance, fence, grapple, and dagger your opponent or is it just strictly jousting?

My quick answer: They have less than a month to make this work - tested and all. Don't expect anything else than basic hit boxes where you need to hit with your "stick". More hardcore mechanics you may start to expect post launch or something... At least I hope so since there is way more important stuff to be designed and implemented.

I 100% expect this first implementation to be normal jousting. What you are describing are field combat techniques - and yes, in time there is an excellent chance we will see some of them.

Posted By Ravenlute at 07:39 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Will you have female models available to choose as jousters?

As much as I too would love to see female avatars ... many games start out with "you can be this male toon, or a carbon copy of the same male toon with a different head stuck on it."

Mechanics and gameplay will come first, customization and depth will be added later. Different avatars, including other tribes and female avatars, are likely to be some time down the track.

That said, fingers crossed!

After all, SBS is into realistic armour. So once the visor is down, the two avatars may be very similar. After all, no way would you put a dip in the middle of the breast plate - that would be asking to get a lance punching through your heart. The breastplate might be slightly roomier at the top and slightly narrower at the waist, but chainmail bikinis were out last year, armour is armour.

She's missing her chain and gauntlets, but this is the right direction:

Part of why I love that image might be lost on many people - she's got her hair properly out of the way, so she can both see as well as put on a helmet. Long hair waving in the breeze is very cinematic, but also screams "she's so dead in a real fight".

Orisoll - 1 week ago
@Lady Grace:

Posted By Lady Grace at 6:13 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

-snip-

100% agree.

Although I don't think armor in Elyria has to be totally unisex when it comes to the ornamentation and styling.

In the real world soldiers were (and still are) almost exclusively male. This means that over the years the aesthetic style of protective wear have been developed to look good on guys.

But in Elyria, men and women are fundamentally the same. It's a fantasy world where women are just as strong, fast, and physically sturdy as a man.

That means there would be more female warriors than there are in the real world, so I could see there being some armors designed specifically to look good on the ladies.

Lady Grace - 1 week ago
@Orisoll:

Posted By Orisoll at 7:41 PM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Posted By Lady Grace at 6:13 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

-snip-

100% agree.

Although I don't think armor in Elyria has to be totally unisex when it comes to the ornamentation and styling.

In the real world soldiers were (and still are) almost exclusively male. This means that over the years the aesthetic style of protective wear have been developed to look good on guys.

But in Elyria, men and women are fundamentally the same. It's a fantasy world where women are just as strong, fast, and physically sturdy as a man.

That means there would be more female warriors than there are in the real world, so I could see there being some armors designed specifically to look good on the ladies.

There are more female service personnel than you might think, and there is no "front line" any more. Hasn't been for a Century. Soldiers are predominantly male, but many countries have a long history of women in combat, go read up on Lydia Litvyak (Лидия Владимировна Литвяк).

"Looking good" is a thing that should also follow technology - to begin, looks have nothing to do with it. It is about staying alive in combat - armour needs to work. Historically, utterly gorgeous armours were made for very rich people, and I expect no less in Elyria. But trust me, as someone who has put on her kevlar body armour someplace hot and 'interesting', looking good has nothing at all to do with it. Take me to a ball? Totally different matter: then I don't want to look good, I want to look amazing. But when someone may well be trying to kill you by sunset? It's all about function. Same with jousting armour - not having your neck snapped off or a lance shoved into your lungs is what your armour needs to do. Fine filigree, coloured metal edging, black coatings ... sure if you have the money go nuts, but "not dead" is always first.

And by "rich" historically that often meant Emperor or Queen's Personal Champion rich. Or able to afford Italian armour, because they just made ridiculously pretty armour.

Fancy is fine. Dying for fashion isn't.

Orisoll - 1 week ago
@Lady Grace:

Posted By Lady Grace at 04:05 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Posted By Orisoll at 7:41 PM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Posted By Lady Grace at 6:13 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

-snip-

100% agree.

Although I don't think armor in Elyria has to be totally unisex when it comes to the ornamentation and styling.

In the real world soldiers were (and still are) almost exclusively male. This means that over the years the aesthetic style of protective wear have been developed to look good on guys.

But in Elyria, men and women are fundamentally the same. It's a fantasy world where women are just as strong, fast, and physically sturdy as a man.

That means there would be more female warriors than there are in the real world, so I could see there being some armors designed specifically to look good on the ladies.

There are more female service personnel than you might think, and there is no "front line" any more. Hasn't been for a Century. Soldiers are predominantly male, but many countries have a long history of women in combat, go read up on Lydia Litvyak (Лидия Владимировна Литвяк).

"Looking good" is a thing that should also follow technology - to begin, looks have nothing to do with it. It is about staying alive in combat - armour needs to work. Historically, utterly gorgeous armours were made for very rich people, and I expect no less in Elyria. But trust me, as someone who has put on her kevlar body armour someplace hot and 'interesting', looking good has nothing at all to do with it. Take me to a ball? Totally different matter: then I don't want to look good, I want to look amazing. But when someone may well be trying to kill you by sunset? It's all about function. Same with jousting armour - not having your neck snapped off or a lance shoved into your lungs is what your armour needs to do. Fine filigree, coloured metal edging, black coatings ... sure if you have the money go nuts, but "not dead" is always first.And by "rich" historically that often meant Emperor or Queen's Personal Champion rich. Or able to afford Italian armour, because they just made ridiculously pretty armour.

In recent years, sure. But that's irrelevant to my point. I'm talking about the design and mindset behind 1300's to late 1600's armor, which is the span where most fantasy worlds draw their inspiration.

While armor is all about protection, there is an element of art to it. The people who made these armors took a lot of pride in their craft.

There's a lot I could say on the topics of ornamentation, military culture in the late middle ages, and the psychological impacts of fighting an armored opponent, but I'll skip it for the sake brevity, Basically, armor is meant to do more than just protect. It's there to intimidate, display heraldry, and sometimes (like you mentioned) be a statement of wealth.

Those secondary aspects weren't insignificant, especially to the upper class individuals who could afford to pimp out their armor and, topically, participate in jousting.

Anyway, I wasn't looking to start an essay battle. I was just pointing out that the higher proportion of female combatants would likely mean that some armors would be styled with females in mind. Obviously the armorers wouldn't compromise the functionality.

Maulvorn - 1 week ago
@Lady Grace:

Posted By Lady Grace at 11:13 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

Posted By Nahkahiiri at 12:28 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Posted By Jouten at 1:36 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

So here's my question, will you be able to perform the following actions on a horse; use the butt end of the lance, fence, grapple, and dagger your opponent or is it just strictly jousting?

My quick answer: They have less than a month to make this work - tested and all. Don't expect anything else than basic hit boxes where you need to hit with your "stick". More hardcore mechanics you may start to expect post launch or something... At least I hope so since there is way more important stuff to be designed and implemented.

I 100% expect this first implementation to be normal jousting. What you are describing are field combat techniques - and yes, in time there is an excellent chance we will see some of them.

Posted By Ravenlute at 07:39 AM - Wed Aug 09 2017

Will you have female models available to choose as jousters?

As much as I too would love to see female avatars ... many games start out with "you can be this male toon, or a carbon copy of the same male toon with a different head stuck on it."

Mechanics and gameplay will come first, customization and depth will be added later. Different avatars, including other tribes and female avatars, are likely to be some time down the track.

That said, fingers crossed!

After all, SBS is into realistic armour. So once the visor is down, the two avatars may be very similar. After all, no way would you put a dip in the middle of the breast plate - that would be asking to get a lance punching through your heart. The breastplate might be slightly roomier at the top and slightly narrower at the waist, but chainmail bikinis were out last year, armour is armour.

She's missing her chain and gauntlets, but this is the right direction:

Part of why I love that image might be lost on many people - she's got her hair properly out of the way, so she can both see as well as put on a helmet. Long hair waving in the breeze is very cinematic, but also screams "she's so dead in a real fight".

I would imagine most armours could be unisex perhaps, a hauberk for example could fit both male and female models.

Ravenlute - 1 week ago
@Lady Grace:

Posted By Lady Grace at 3:13 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

Mechanics and gameplay will come first, customization and depth will be added later. Different avatars, including other tribes and female avatars, are likely to be some time down the track.

They already have female models!

Llewelyn_Disgyndwr - 1 week ago
@Lady Grace:

AWESOME AWARD granted for Brilliant example!

CommonlyQuixotic - 1 week ago

Will those who play be jousting against other players or against NPC's?

Caspian - 1 week ago
@CommonlyQuixotic:

Other players.

Iota - 1 week ago

I love that this implies both mounted combat and in-character games and competitions.

Maulvorn - 1 week ago

Will NPCs be able to host Jousts in-game?

Sneezewortt - 1 week ago

o0 Very cool! excited to try it out at pax :)

Marovec - 1 week ago

Damn it...I must have missed it...

Jouten - 1 week ago
@Marovec:

Posted By Marovec at 12:43 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

Damn it...I must have missed it...

Nope, the Q&A is in two days.

Twitch Q&A on Thursday, August 10 at 1PM PDT / 4PM EDT / 8PM GMT / 8PM UTC.

Teland - 1 week ago

While jousting is a form of mounted combat, it is just one component of it. Jousting does not equal being able to swing a sword or fire a bow from horseback. While many of the same mechanics can used when full mounted combat is implemented later on after release, I don't expect SbS to give it to us at game launch.

Zewtastic - 1 week ago

you mention a Twitch stream, but give no twitch account to follow.

Caspian - 1 week ago
Aurra Sing - 1 week ago

Everything you are showing us so far seems to be Neran content.

Could you give an estimate, when we will see designs for other tribes?

Droob - 1 week ago
@Aurra Sing:

The designs like this are purely mechanics, at least that is where the brunt of the development will be located. Designs specific for tribes will be fairly easy to incorporate once the mechanics are nailed.

Luminios - 1 week ago

Are the red outlines showing what is armor and what isn't? Because usually you'd wear gauntlets, cuisses and greaves as part of your jousting armor.

The armor looks really cool though, and I like that you chose to go with the frogmouth helmet.

For historical tournament armor there are some examples where these helmets were bolted to the breast plate, to prevent the rider from breaking his neck, when a lance hits his head.

The left (I think ...) pauldron was usually a lot bigger than the right one, because you'd expect to be hit left during a joust, while the right side is a lot less likely to be hit, and doesn't offer as good of an angle compared to the left side.

Abool - 1 week ago

The mechanics of this lancing system seem similar to the one currently used in Life is Feudal, but with a whole lot more added on and much greater detail at work. I'm excited about the ideas of lance breaking animations along with hit animations including even sparks from impact with armor. The lancing mechanics in LiF was one of my favorite PvP mechanics in that game and it sounds like they will only be better in CoE. Working from my experiences with the other game and what I've heard about this ones mechanics, I have a couple questions.

Will a means of quickly changing to a new lance after your first one breaks be provided, or will we have to go through the inventory/equipment screens to equip a new one?

Will anti-cavalry weapons be put in to counter lancers, such a pikes? If so will pike walls be an available strategy in CoE? Will a set pike kill a horse instantly or only damage it and allow the lancer to proceed forward to lance the pikemen?

markof - 1 week ago

Last Question:

the concept provided by the Tiltyard Vanguards party looks awesome.

It seem to me that those buildings and structures are mostly wooden and they have a non permanent feel to them. So far we had heard about permanent buildings using the architecture tool, blue prints and architects, wilderness shelters that are built using the survival skill and not architecture and probably do not use the architecture tool and blue prints.

The jousting structures seem to be in the middle, will they use the architecture tool and blue prints too ? and if yes is it possible to build a permanent type of those structures (with stone and metal on top of wood) ?

follow up, will there be more non permanent buildings for maybe commercial fairs, festivals and such.... like those

Maulvorn - 1 week ago

Since having a badoon and a normal bit or strong bit will be very much overkill.

Maulvorn - 1 week ago

I doubt double reins will be needed as you are just going in a straight line, depending on the Horse I would just use a snaffle bit.

Lady Grace - 1 week ago
@Maulvorn:

Posted By Maulvorn at 8:47 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

I doubt double reins will be needed as you are just going in a straight line, depending on the Horse I would just use a snaffle bit.

Not needed for jousting ... nor are they in parade armour or jousting illuminations. There are examples of the second rein (upper) being a chain, too. The illustrations provided by Jouten just show the difference between field and tourney really nicely, and not only the rider's equipment changes.

Maulvorn - 1 week ago
@Lady Grace:

Posted By Lady Grace at 10:00 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

Posted By Maulvorn at 8:47 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

I doubt double reins will be needed as you are just going in a straight line, depending on the Horse I would just use a snaffle bit.

Not needed for jousting ... nor are they in parade armour or jousting illuminations. There are examples of the second rein (upper) being a chain, too. The illustrations provided by Jouten just show the difference between field and tourney really nicely, and not only the rider's equipment changes.

Indeed that is true, are you talking about curb chains or chain reins?

Since a curb chain is an attachment to the bit and allows for another direction of force to be applied.

Nahkahiiri - 1 week ago

I believe jousting done at this point of development is just to have something fun to show in PAX. I don't believe it will be developed much further until some later date when other more important things have been completed so I wouldn't start brainstorming too much your armies' cavalry tactics etc.

Btw, Kypiqs can do mounted combat as well... in their way = riding a panther or whatever and using bows for example. I don't believe we ever see a heavily armored Kypiq jousting, but it doesn't mean jousting mechanisms developed now can't be used later to develop race specific mounted combat styles. Yoru's may be able to ride mammoths... Dras may ride crocodiles or platydiles (platypus + crocodile)... I could see waerd riding huge scorpions etc.

I think it's a great to have something at PAX where two players can compete against each other. Or would you like to see MUD, dev journals, backend stuff or V3 at PAX? :)

Rhaegys - 1 week ago

So... Is this feature implemented just for a few races? I don't see Kypiq, hrothi, yoru doing much jousting because of their size. Nor do I see other races inclined to do so because their native biomes aren't ideal for it (dras, janoa, to'resk, etc.)

Maulvorn - 1 week ago
@Rhaegys:

Posted By Rhaegys at 06:33 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

So... Is this feature implemented just for a few races? I don't see Kypiq, hrothi, yoru doing much jousting because of their size. Nor do I see other races inclined to do so because their native biomes aren't ideal for it (dras, janoa, to'resk, etc.)

I would imagine it would be a mostly Neran thing.

markof - 1 week ago

Question:

There will be at least two tiers of mounts, intermediate and advanced, will jousting be limited to the advanced tier of mounts or will it be available with any mounts?

Maulvorn - 1 week ago
@markof:

Posted By markof at 06:03 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

Question:

There will be at least two tiers of mounts, intermediate and advanced, will jousting be limited to the advanced tier of mounts or will it be available with any mounts?

I hope it is just limited to the Horse mounts.

DavanOrdanska - 1 week ago
@Maulvorn:

Posted By Maulvorn at 06:44 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

Posted By Rhaegys at 06:33 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

So... Is this feature implemented just for a few races? I don't see Kypiq, hrothi, yoru doing much jousting because of their size. Nor do I see other races inclined to do so because their native biomes aren't ideal for it (dras, janoa, to'resk, etc.)

I would imagine it would be a mostly Neran thing.

Posted By Maulvorn at 06:43 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

Posted By markof at 06:03 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

Question:

There will be at least two tiers of mounts, intermediate and advanced, will jousting be limited to the advanced tier of mounts or will it be available with any mounts?

I hope it is just limited to the Horse mounts.

Quick heads up it's a q and a thread people want proper answers from people who know the actual answer

markof - 1 week ago

Question:

As "these mechanics are the same in a structured jousting experience as they are on the battlefield, and careful attention has been paid to make sure the mechanics work equally well in both cases."

some form of mounted combat will be available in battle, will those be limited to pitched battle and to cavalry vs cavalry combat ?

Artax_Daane - 1 week ago

Wait, so we DO have mounted combat?

Kaizen - 1 week ago
@Artax_Daane:

Posted By Artax_Daane at 6:47 PM - Mon Aug 07 2017

Wait, so we DO have mounted combat?

We're developing a mounted attack. This kind of simple attack while on a mount is in-scope for release. The Mounted Combat system, which we've discussed previously, is not.

Sullen - 1 week ago

Hmm, I wonder if the Kypiq's lance can even reach the other rider.

LorenzW - 1 week ago

Dang, so much to do just for jousting!

Y'all are very busy and it looks AMAZING.

Athad - 1 week ago

Will other tribes have there version of jousting or martial competition?

Atlas Forgiven - 1 week ago

Can a character die during Jousting?

Will the mechanics and arena for jousting be the same in every Biome or will things change?

Could you resolve a dispute through jousting? (Like a duel)

RedAngel - 1 week ago

Is there the possibility that you can kill someone while jousting? Like factors of the speed of both horses, faulty armor that has sweet spots, lances that do not break like they should or extremely well made or durablelances that can puncture the armor and critically wound someone?

Also can you intentionally kill the other knight's horse?

Is there any possibility of childrens mutton jousting? Elephant jousting?

Other then that sounds solid guys keep it up.

Imshada - 1 week ago

As usual, I've updated the Q&A Live Questions List and it should begin pulling in questions from this thread shortly. The link will be the same for all future public Q&As, so feel free to bookmark it! ^.^

(EDIT: Running into a small bug that's preventing it from pulling from the new thread, but I've isolated the issue and plan to fix it ASAP. Thanks for your patience. 😀)

Jouten - 1 week ago

The armor has a lot of squishy bits... and the armor you're using looks like the stuff that'd be for the general field combat rather than strictly mounted. Too many gaps and not solid enough.

The biggest distinction between combat armor and jousting/tournament armor would be the added layers of protection for different activities at the tournament. In this case, the helmet you have is generally right but the rest of the armor is begging to be punctured.

Example of jousting armor.

Example of combat armor via a manuscript.

Example of jousting armor from the same author.

Notice the lack of a shield on the shoulder and less overall "bulkiness". That's cuz folks who did the tournaments were competing using a very specific suit per activity that optimized protection and let them do ONLY what they needed to do. They weren't expected to hop out of their horse after they lanced a dude and shank him on the ground. Also those that did tournaments were mad rich and could afford a separate suit of armor per event.

In terms of jousting in general, in the tournaments you never hold the lance out the whole time and forcefully aim with it. Instead you gradually lower it until you get it where you need it to be right before impact because this will lessen fatigue in the arm and actually grants greater accuracy. So possibly adjust the jousting to a distance/leveling mechanic. Not only that but most armor also has a slot that's used to actually hold the lance as shown in the following images.

The first armor looks as though it could be used outside of just jousting like actual combat whereas the second armor looks exclusively for jousting. Maybe have suits of armor that buff characters ability to use a lance better?

Or, maybe, set it so that when jousting, those with inferior armor have a harder time of setting the point where it needs to be, as though they need to do the lowering technique as I mentioned as the only way to lance someone, whereas somebody with the right equipment have the ability to hold the spear and place and have a better chance of putting the point where they want it. Allow certain mechanics to be bypassed by technology?

Lady Grace - 1 week ago
@Jouten:

Wohoo Jousting! Love it :)

Posted By Jouten at 10:33 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

The armor has a lot of squishy bits... and the armor you're using looks like the stuff that'd be for the general field combat rather than strictly mounted. Too many gaps and not solid enough.

The biggest distinction between combat armor and jousting/tournament armor would be the added layers of protection for different activities at the tournament. In this case, the helmet you have is generally right but the rest of the armor is begging to be punctured.

Example of jousting armor.

Example of combat armor via a manuscript.

Example of jousting armor from the same author.

Notice the lack of a shield on the shoulder and less overall "bulkiness". That's cuz folks who did the tournaments were competing using a very specific suit per activity that optimized protection and let them do ONLY what they needed to do. They weren't expected to hop out of their horse after they lanced a dude and shank him on the ground. Also those that did tournaments were mad rich and could afford a separate suit of armor per event.

In terms of jousting in general, in the tournaments you never hold the lance out the whole time and forcefully aim with it. Instead you gradually lower it until you get it where you need it to be right before impact because this will lessen fatigue in the arm and actually grants greater accuracy. So possibly adjust the jousting to a distance/leveling mechanic. Not only that but most armor also has a slot that's used to actually hold the lance as shown in the following images.

The first armor looks as though it could be used outside of just jousting like actual combat whereas the second armor looks exclusively for jousting. Maybe have suits of armor that buff characters ability to use a lance better?

Or, maybe, set it so that when jousting, those with inferior armor have a harder time of setting the point where it needs to be, as though they need to do the lowering technique as I mentioned as the only way to lance someone, whereas somebody with the right equipment have the ability to hold the spear and place and have a better chance of putting the point where they want it. Allow certain mechanics to be bypassed by technology?

I really like the armour they showed, however to me it is obviously early armor. As technology improves, we really should see besagew (the round bits of armour added to protect the armpits) ... nor do they have to look boring.

Later armours the pauldron shoulder plates should extend further over the chest plate, removing the need for a besagew.

Spot on about different armours for field combat and jousting, obvious answer is to simply have an RP element in the Torney rules "field armour to be worn."

Tourney armour from Saxony, 1575: you could never fight effectively on foot with your left shoulder immobilized by plate like this, but it probably would have been great for jousting:

And begging to be punctured? Well, getting hurt is why technology moved on in the first place. The concept armour would result in injuries, but then again ... no-one expects jousting in Elyria to be safe. Researching armour that makes people safer in jousts would be an obvious tech progression, or not if players are happy with the butcher's bill.

Just like having doubled reigns ... no need to have doubles for a joust, but note the combat horse gear on the knight on the right ... the double reigns are not drawn in by accident.

Jouten - 1 week ago
@Lady Grace:

A bit of house keeping:

Posted By Lady Grace at 04:24 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

I really like the armour they showed, however to me it is obviously early armor. As technology improves, we really should see besagew (the round bits of armour added to protect the armpits) ... nor do they have to look boring.

Posted By Lady Grace at 04:24 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

And begging to be punctured? Well, getting hurt is why technology moved on in the first place. The concept armour would result in injuries, but then again ... no-one expects jousting in Elyria to be safe. Researching armour that makes people safer in jousts would be an obvious tech progression, or not if players are happy with the butcher's bill.

I'd agree with you but they've already shown solid plate pieces. Everything marked in Green are kill points if they jousted yet they've got a fully protected set in the "standard" armor; even though, again, the blasted chest piece is too high. Stop it at the blue marker and tasset/faulds the rest down. Is this a fantasy MMORPG? Yes. But you can't magic biomechanics. The rider can't even climb onto the horse without choking himself out with the way it's drawn.

@Heat & Irreverent, just take 20 minutes to watch this video: Fantasy Armor Design Grounded in History

Posted By Lady Grace at 04:24 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

Just like having doubled reigns ... no need to have doubles for a joust, but note the combat horse gear on the knight on the right ... the double reigns are not drawn in by accident.

Exactly. The gear is different because what they expected to do was completely different and it's good to see how it's reflected in both the horse's gear and the fighter in documented historical pieces like these.

So here's my question, will you be able to perform the following actions on a horse; use the butt end of the lance, fence, grapple, and dagger your opponent or is it just strictly jousting?

Note: All of the images I've posted are from the Munich version of the Opus Amplissimum de Arte Athletica from Paulus Hector Mair.

Nahkahiiri - 1 week ago
@Jouten:

Posted By Jouten at 1:36 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

So here's my question, will you be able to perform the following actions on a horse; use the butt end of the lance, fence, grapple, and dagger your opponent or is it just strictly jousting?

My quick answer: They have less than a month to make this work - tested and all. Don't expect anything else than basic hit boxes where you need to hit with your "stick". More hardcore mechanics you may start to expect post launch or something... At least I hope so since there is way more important stuff to be designed and implemented.

Jouten - 1 week ago
@Nahkahiiri:

Posted By Nahkahiiri at 08:28 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

My quick answer: They have less than a month to make this work - tested and all. Don't expect anything else than basic hit boxes where you need to hit with your "stick". More hardcore mechanics you may start to expect post launch or something... At least I hope so since there is way more important stuff to be designed and implemented.

Sorry, I meant for that to be a later down the road sort of question since there's no game out there where you'll be able to grapple a dude off a horse or spin the lance around and butt some dude on the head. For the mechanics though, I still believe they should implement a timed lowering system so that the point just gets to the elevation of their intended target right before impact. Otherwise the lance will bounce all over the place once they have it leveled causing them to more than likely miss their target. Maybe drag the mouse down slowly and as it's being dragged down the bouncing spread won't be so high, but once it's reached it's lowest point or leveled point the bouncing spread is increased dramatically. Or maybe set a point on anywhere you click that when you hold the LMB the further away the point you pull away the faster it drops. Kinda like how you have the Scroll Wheel button pressed down as you scroll through a webpage.

Maulvorn - 1 week ago
@Jouten:

Posted By Jouten at 1:36 PM - Tue Aug 08 2017

Posted By Nahkahiiri at 08:28 AM - Tue Aug 08 2017

My quick answer: They have less than a month to make this work - tested and all. Don't expect anything else than basic hit boxes where you need to hit with your "stick". More hardcore mechanics you may start to expect post launch or something... At least I hope so since there is way more important stuff to be designed and implemented.

Sorry, I meant for that to be a later down the road sort of question since there's no game out there where you'll be able to grapple a dude off a horse or spin the lance around and butt some dude on the head. For the mechanics though, I still believe they should implement a timed lowering system so that the point just gets to the elevation of their intended target right before impact. Otherwise the lance will bounce all over the place once they have it leveled causing them to more than likely miss their target. Maybe drag the mouse down slowly and as it's being dragged down the bouncing spread won't be so high, but once it's reached it's lowest point or leveled point the bouncing spread is increased dramatically. Or maybe set a point on anywhere you click that when you hold the LMB the further away the point you pull away the faster it drops. Kinda like how you have the Scroll Wheel button pressed down as you scroll through a webpage.

I seriously cannot wait for mounted combat, I will keep on making my horse threads in the hopes it helps the devs!

Scheneighnay - 1 week ago
@Jouten:

Posted By Jouten at 8/7/2017 10:33:35 PM

The armor has a lot of squishy bits... and the armor you're using looks like the stuff that'd be for the general field combat rather than strictly mounted. Too many gaps and not solid enough.

The biggest distinction between combat armor and jousting/tournament armor would be the added layers of protection for different activities at the tournament. In this case, the helmet you have is generally right but the rest of the armor is begging to be punctured.

Example of jousting armor.

Example of combat armor via a manuscript.

Example of jousting armor from the same author.

Notice the lack of a shield on the shoulder and less overall "bulkiness". That's cuz folks who did the tournaments were competing using a very specific suit per activity that optimized protection and let them do ONLY what they needed to do. They weren't expected to hop out of their horse after they lanced a dude and shank him on the ground. Also those that did tournaments were mad rich and could afford a separate suit of armor per event.

In terms of jousting in general, in the tournaments you never hold the lance out the whole time and forcefully aim with it. Instead you gradually lower it until you get it where you need it to be right before impact because this will lessen fatigue in the arm and actually grants greater accuracy. So possibly adjust the jousting to a distance/leveling mechanic. Not only that but most armor also has a slot that's used to actually hold the lance as shown in the following images.

The first armor looks as though it could be used outside of just jousting like actual combat whereas the second armor looks exclusively for jousting. Maybe have suits of armor that buff characters ability to use a lance better?

Or, maybe, set it so that when jousting, those with inferior armor have a harder time of setting the point where it needs to be, as though they need to do the lowering technique as I mentioned as the only way to lance someone, whereas somebody with the right equipment have the ability to hold the spear and place and have a better chance of putting the point where they want it. Allow certain mechanics to be bypassed by technology?

I don't even think special buffs like that are necessary for the last picture: it's clearly an extremely sturdy armor with extremely limited movement. So just give it defensive stats through the roof, but incredible debuffs to everything that isn't jousting.

Scheneighnay - 1 week ago

This is great, but wasn't it planned not to implement mounted combat until after launch?

Iccubus - 1 week ago

Awesome cannot wait to see this Q&A.

How much will the Jousting Arena cost in the EP store?

Can you buy these as a kit or each piece separately?

What Quality will the Jousting Arena have? (Standard, Artisan, Peerless , Legendary , Etc)

How will the structures change over all the tribes?

Nagash - 1 week ago

Question for the Q&A... Will all tribes be able to joust on horses, or will horse jousting be limited to certain tribes? eg: will smaller/larger tribes have to joust on other animals?

Antelino - 1 week ago
@Nagash:

Considering that mounts will have weight restrictions I would bet if you are too heavy for a horse than you will have to ride something a bit bigger, no?

Orisoll - 1 week ago

That armor is devastatingly fly.

Dellexe - 1 week ago

Quick question here, will CoE feature both piercing and swiping lances? While medieval lances were designed to be couched (made possible by high backed saddles and stirrups), older lances from the Greek/Roman era were often used to swipe and slash rather than just stab. I'm just curious whether CoE will feature only medieval lance combat styles or whether you will feature older lance combat styles as well.