COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Lets break the game

"If you build it, they will come... and then they'll find all the exploits" -God, to Noah, talking about mmos.

I'm making this thread to collect all of my, and everyone else's, fears for how some of the game mechanics described can be exploited, broken, or used for ulterior motives. The goal here being that the more serious ones get recognized by Caspian and Soulbound studios, so that they are at least contemplating these problems while they design the mechanics behind them. My hope is that by poking holes and pointing to holes that will be poked, the ship that is Chronicles of Elyria will not sink.

I'll start with my own predicted exploits, and if anyone of you sees an answer readily available, please reply and i'll add the reply so that other people with similar concerns can find all of the answers in one place.

-1- [Answered] An entire clan of griefers decide to become Non-traditional NPC characters within the same city. Many of the eldest blacksmiths, carpenters, bakers, cooks, and other important expert professionals, all decide to run away together to form a new town, or they stage a coup, or abruptly mob-assassinate the king-player without warning, or deprive the town of their abilities and/or weaken the town for an incoming siege. What prevents this from happening, or what keeps this from doing too much damage to a town?

From Lech: There are two answers for this, one most of these "griefers" would probably get slain by the rest of the population, if they caused violence and remember there are literally thousands of characters within this story, not all of them will agree anyways, so violence at the start is guaranteed. Second answer, would this actually be a problem? If a bunch of players come together and move out of town that is just people moving, such wouldn't cause a problem to the town for then jobs would be open for others to come and take them.

From Grimwulf: The entire clans revolts. > Good! That's story for the game, why are they revolting (bad hair day? heh heh)? If they feel they need to usurp the king they better have the resources to back their claim afterwards. If they want to do a stop-work to 'shut down the town' they better have a monopoly otherwise other crafters will just pick up the slack. If they do have that monopoly, that threat of leaving is just what other players will do. They'll leave and then that clan/guild won't have any customers.

Sure the king could be replaced over and over. It would be known as a time of turmoil in the realm. At the same time nearby kingdoms would be claiming land from that kingdom, crafters would be leaving because they wouldn't be safe, brigands would be able to setup shop on the main roads, squatters taking over buildings, army deserting... The kingdom would fall to pieces until someone with enough might takes it over and can protect their interests. If the 'wrong' group wins, then they'll find they have a kingdom that doesn't want them, and guess what, they get deposed of themselves, or that kingdom will emigrate away, or be annexed by a nearby kingdom or...

-2- [Answered] A few players form a family with an opening for one new player to join as a child. New player joins as child, has personality conflict OOC and hates other players, proceeds to steal everything in the family house and burn down the house / murder his in-game family late at night while they're OPCs. What moderation can a family do to protect their belongings or home, or themselves, from getting an unlucky player to join their family?

From Grimwulf: Sure thats an issue, but always has been in games. Of course just because you belong to a family doesn't mean you have control in that family. Being allowed in a house does not mean you are allowed in Papa's room. Or allowed to open that chest. But going back to the beginning there's always been issues with people not getting along. Make sure you are recruiting people you can trust.

-3- [Not answered] You play multiple lives in the same soul and master your craft at smithing. Eventually you come across your soulmate in one life. Your soulmate turns out to be the one player in the game you hate most of all, and as long as one of you continue to play the same soul, your soulmate will be someone you despise, and may even try to grief you on sight (which will persist through every life, for the rest of your time playing CoE using that soul, and they always have a bonus to finding you). Give up multiple lives worth of work to choose a new soul, or endure. How do you reconcile this?

-4- [Answered]Resources are finite in this game. There are no respawning iron nodes or trees. Recycling has been mentioned, but "At some point, it'll be necessary to get rid of the blade entirely and put a new on one it." If someone were to collect all of the iron, discarded hilts and blades, assorted metal scraps, etc, over time, they could in theory have a monopoly on metal, withhold it from everyone and cease a large area of crafting. Can blades be permanently "destroyed" (trash function of other games) and what happens to those resources? Furthermore, what happens to wood resources that diminish from being burnt? If you burn all wood you find like some kind of religious anti-wood zealot, can you deplete a server of all wood?

From Lech: Yes both are very much possible, however the amount of people, organization and time it would take to either collect all the world's iron or destroy all the world's trees would be gigantic and could even take up the game's full in real life time span all depending on the situation. Remember as-well if someone got rid of something entirely that would be to their loss, and the learning curve over time will cause people to do the opposite.

From Grimwulf: Finite resources While resources are finite, some are also renewable. Need more tree's? Plant them. Running out of wildlife in the area? Stop hunting, or create breeding zones. Bring animals in from another area. Non-renewable resources are harder, but, the world is a big place. Imagine another world in a MMO that takes 48hours straight game time to walk from one coast to the other.

-5- [Not answered] From bael: I'm afraid of an inherent problem that cannot be controlled. How COE inevitably becomes P2W without a cash shop; People selling magical or talented souls through ebay.


As answers to these questions, or more questions, come in, ill update this post as best i can.

12/28/2015 10:11:39 PM #1

There is a thread somewhere like this. What are you concerns about CoE or something. I would link it but I'm on my phone.

12/28/2015 10:21:53 PM #2

This is in order with your questions, enjoy.

Q1. There are two answers for this, one most of these "griefers" would probably get slain by the rest of the population, if they caused violence and remember there are literally thousands of characters within this story, not all of them will agree anyways, so violence at the start is guaranteed. Second answer, would this actually be a problem? If a bunch of players come together and move out of town that is just people moving, such wouldn't cause a problem to the town for then jobs would be open for others to come and take them.

Q2. This may not even happen since Caspian's child code mechanic exists, see every "soulless" child character has a code of sorts in which the child's parent's can give away to friends, so that they can be their child in-game. If the family somehow had this new player still somehow, then the family elder or the parents can choose whether or not this player has access to the family heirlooms and such and maybe even exile them. Lastly do remember that this game is family centric, the learning curve for it will make players get be closer to their families, making it much harder that for the player who decides to in any way physically harm their family, since their chances of survival in this game would be then harmed, and the positives to having a family out weigh the negatives.

Q3. Keep in mind that your soulmate isn't the person you marry or have a family together necessarily, they are a person you have a spiritual connection with. If they keep attacking you their risk of losing their own life becomes greater and the more their characters truly die or get jailed, the more money they spend to keep playing, acting irrationally in this game is more of a burden then thinking through your actions and letting bygones be bygones.

Q4. Yes both are very much possible, however the amount of people, organization and time it would take to either collect all the world's iron or destroy all the world's trees would be gigantic and could even take up the game's full in real life time span all depending on the situation. Remember as-well if someone got rid of something entirely that would be to their loss, and the learning curve over time will cause people to do the opposite.

Hopefully this helped you, have a blessed day.

-MX.


Alt text - can be left blank

12/28/2015 10:55:12 PM #3
  • The entire clans revolts. > Good! That's story for the game, why are they revolting (bad hair day? heh heh)? If they feel they need to usurp the king they better have the resources to back their claim afterwards. If they want to do a stop-work to 'shut down the town' they better have a monopoly otherwise other crafters will just pick up the slack. If they do have that monopoly, that threat of leaving is just what other players will do. They'll leave and then that clan/guild won't have any customers.

  • OOC relations > Sure thats an issue, but always has been in games. Of course just because you belong to a family doesn't mean you have control in that family. Being allowed in a house does not mean you are allowed in Papa's room. Or allowed to open that chest. But going back to the beginning there's always been issues with people not getting along. Make sure you are recruiting people you can trust.

  • Soul mate Yes I can see some of this happening, but one thing to remember is that all the benefits of finding your soulmate are lost to that person as well when you are dead.

  • Finite resources While resources are finite, some are also renewable. Need more tree's? Plant them. Running out of wildlife in the area? Stop hunting, or create breeding zones. Bring animals in from another area. Non-renewable resources are harder, but, the world is a big place. Imagine another world in a MMO that takes 48hours straight game time to walk from one coast to the other.

(edit: huh I made bullet points without knowing how. nifty)


12/28/2015 11:01:29 PM #4

Thanks MX - good replies but a couple thoughts on 2 and 3;

For 2) I read in the dev journal its possible for players in a family to have open families so new players can come in based on criteria and "expectations", which is where the possibility for a chaos-factor to manifest comes from. You could also just have a griefer from a clan of griefers who chooses to take up one of these opportunities to join a new-player-welcoming family who immediately decides, day one, im burning the house down for fun when you all go to sleep, then im going to join my out-of-game clan outside the city walls and they'll "raise" me.

For 3) I don't only mean murder when i say griefing. There are a lot of ways to work the system to grief someone without technically being a criminal in many games. A soul mate will be able to find you when you are nearby, so all they have to do is stick around and they use VoIP to tell their criminal friends where you are and they can murder you, rob you, destroy your home, etc. Meanwhile, your soulmate thats communicating all of this, is, within the game, completely innocent, and can continue to follow you around. If you retaliate against your soulmate, it will appear to outsiders like you are confronting an innocent bystander. Thoughts?

@Grimwulf: whats to stop a group OOC from all-of-a-sudden mobbing the king and killing the player without warning? Theres nothing that tells anyone that someone is an npc or a pc. One day what if all the npcs just come alive and overwhelm the guards? The king might get replaced, but another group could just do it again and keep killing the king until they got who they wanted, couldnt they?

12/28/2015 11:17:15 PM #5

Sure the king could be replaced over and over. It would be known as a time of turmoil in the realm. At the same time nearby kingdoms would be claiming land from that kingdom, crafters would be leaving because they wouldn't be safe, brigands would be able to setup shop on the main roads, squatters taking over buildings, army deserting... The kingdom would fall to pieces until someone with enough might takes it over and can protect their interests. If the 'wrong' group wins, then they'll find they have a kingdom that doesn't want them, and guess what, they get deposed of themselves, or that kingdom will emigrate away, or be annexed by a nearby kingdom or...

If the average player is not affected by who the king is, they probably won't even care.


12/28/2015 11:26:26 PM #6

that 48 hours is just one continent...


12/28/2015 11:48:18 PM #7

Right! I said one coast to the other :P


12/28/2015 11:52:34 PM #8

Nailed that biblical reference.


\[T]/

12/29/2015 2:00:03 AM #9

From what i have read about the game.My understanding is time would not be on a griefers side,In fact time would force a griefer to role play which is part of the game.Everything you have asked about i would consider inherent risk again part of the game


12/29/2015 3:25:44 AM #10

Yeah you're right. I was listening to a Q&A with Caspian and something he mentioned kind of touched on all of my questions -- every risky choice you make in game risks your playtime.

Make enough enemies, die enough times that plane-walking your soul back to your body becomes impossible, and you're done. I really do love that this game has an organic solution that naturally engenders players to be more or less civil, lest they risk real life money for their in-game playtime.

12/29/2015 4:52:15 AM #11

No - That's for the whole map.

In a straight-line with no hills/rivers etc. and I believe not including the need to rest either.


12/29/2015 5:01:15 AM #12

I did hear from Caspian somewhere that destroying someone's property will take as much time and material add it did to build it


12/29/2015 5:09:22 AM #13

Interesting


12/29/2015 4:05:57 PM #14

look at it in a different way. (1) its basically the overthrow of a kingdom. if the kingdom isn't strong enough to overcome it, then they were barely a kingdom to begin with. there are countless time in history when things like this have already happened. (2) it becomes a story of the demon child who killed his/her entire family. (3) for this i will quote dev journal #2 "Most importantly, soul mates whose affinity go in opposite direction become diametrically opposed to one another. To that end, there is only one way to get past such an antagonist – separate their soul from their body and send them back to the Akashic Records." simple enough. (4) boycot them if they try to sell it over priced. (what good is stock if there is no demand) if they keep it for themselves keep everything else away from them. to be honest if you spent the entire game mining up all the iron then you havnt worked on any skill at all most likely. like you know cooking, or combat, or anything. so what if you have all the iron if you cant cook to keep your guild alive then your going to all die.


12/29/2015 8:52:45 PM #15

I'm afraid of an inherent problem that cannot be controlled. How COE inevitably becomes P2W without a cash shop; People selling magical or talented souls through ebay.