As a cult leader, I hope any in-game rewards for deity worship are not guaranteed, whether they're mainstream religions or not. It just cheapens everything.
It could be interesting if some god or gods decided to speak to or charge a fervent believer with some task, but i'd prefer it stay on the "roleplay" side of things, rather than a game mechanic benefit.
Posted By Vucar at 9:54 PM - Mon Mar 27 2017
As a cult leader, I hope any in-game rewards for deity worship are not guaranteed, whether they're mainstream religions or not. It just cheapens everything.
It could be interesting if some god or gods decided to speak to or charge a fervent believer with some task, but i'd prefer it stay on the "roleplay" side of things, rather than a game mechanic benefit.
Yeah, I'd imagine you'd have to reach some sort of high goal that would likely take your first life to achieve and then perhaps some sort of mericale or act of darkness could be done once by the next character of the same soul.
Instead of there being an apparent buff, it should be a series of quests and tasks you can do to serve.
I'd hope it'd be about becoming closer to the ones above.
Hoping each deity is distinct in goals, communication, and methodology.
Can't fully elaborate right now, but it shouldn't be too hard to imagine.
All of these sound great to me, as long as choosing a religious path is basically the same as choosing any other path.
What I mean by this is that choosing to go down a religious path should be the same as choosing to be a blacksmith, or a master sword fighter, or an animal tamer. If it is what you want to do, it should take up your skills and time, just like everyone else.
What I personally think will be super lame, is if religion is basically an opt in / opt out deal, where everyone can just do it for free in addition to their primary focus, and get benefits from it. Because this classifies people into two categories. Religious people with an advantage, and non-religious people with a disadvantage.
So. As you describe, hell yes, I love the idea of a religious person who can mend peoples' spirit to help decrease the effects of a coup de grace, or who can bless weapons, or who can bless children to improve their chances of a good life. Or even give them visions that slowly tell them the story of the lore of CoE. As long as this is their primary role, and stops them from participating in any other area of the game in a large amount, just like any other role would
Posted By Themata at 12:44 AM - Wed Mar 29 2017
All of these sound great to me, as long as choosing a religious path is basically the same as choosing any other path.
What I mean by this is that choosing to go down a religious path should be the same as choosing to be a blacksmith, or a master sword fighter, or an animal tamer. If it is what you want to do, it should take up your skills and time, just like everyone else.
What I personally think will be super lame, is if religion is basically an opt in / opt out deal, where everyone can just do it for free in addition to their primary focus, and get benefits from it. Because this classifies people into two categories. Religious people with an advantage, and non-religious people with a disadvantage.
So. As you describe, hell yes, I love the idea of a religious person who can mend peoples' spirit to help decrease the effects of a coup de grace, or who can bless weapons, or who can bless children to improve their chances of a good life. Or even give them visions that slowly tell them the story of the lore of CoE. As long as this is their primary role, and stops them from participating in any other area of the game in a large amount, just like any other role would
Feeling kind of weird with this. This isn't actually reflected in reality. Oftentimes, you do have religious carpenters, bakers, contractors, etc.
Working towards the abilities you've mentioned above is indeed closer to an occupation than the, "Opt in/opt out" deal, but IRL that's not a benefit of religion. It's just an occupation related to religions.
Religion is neither something you simply sign up for nor something you work for as a mere occupation. I'd recommend leaving religions to roleplay for the most part, then having events every now and again where players are contacted by one deity or another, maybe given knowledge, maybe a task, etc.
I wouldn't mind a system where the more time you invest in a religion the more benefit it gives you. One of the Kickstarter stretch goals was religious statues that would give a benefit to players who prayed in front of them. It's not opt in/opt out, or devoting yourself to a single role, it's deciding where you want to spend your time for the kind of character and play experience you want.
I'd agree with what you say in your response, but that is not what you said in your OP.
If practising a religion (actively) in-game offers the minor perks you mention, then that is fine, people can do it as an extra vocation with no skill points required.
But if it is giving some sort of advantage, like the ones I mention in my post, then it should be at the expense of the character not being able to specialise in any other area. And when I say that I am not saying 'they can't do anything else ever', I simply mean that it should take up just as much skill slots and time as say archery.
As I said, if religion gives advantages and can be trained with no skill points required, it basically becomes a requirement, in stead of the elective roleplaying experience it should be.
Also, referencing real life is only really important for things such as immersion. Basing mechanics on real life is bad game design. If the two align, great, but you don't choose realism over functionality.
Posted By Themata at 08:15 AM - Wed Mar 29 2017
I'd agree with what you say in your response, but that is not what you said in your OP.
If practising a religion (actively) in-game offers the minor perks you mention, then that is fine, people can do it as an extra vocation with no skill points required.
But if it is giving some sort of advantage, like the ones I mention in my post, then it should be at the expense of the character not being able to specialise in any other area. And when I say that I am not saying 'they can't do anything else ever', I simply mean that it should take up just as much skill slots and time as say archery.
As I said, if religion gives advantages and can be trained with no skill points required, it basically becomes a requirement, in stead of the elective roleplaying experience it should be.
Also, referencing real life is only really important for things such as immersion. Basing mechanics on real life is bad game design. If the two align, great, but you don't choose realism over functionality.
I agree with the whole last half of your post.
It should really just be a roleplay experience. Much like magic and talents, no one should expect to get anything tangible or in-game from religion. If they do, its a happy surprise, but otherwise they should play the game assuming its just not going to be there.
Should be like the talent system and rare.
Would be cool though. Perhaps you'd make a temple in your settlement and people would seek it out for the benefits once in their lives, like a pilgrimage :)
Posted By Vucar at 9:54 PM - Mon Mar 27 2017
As a cult leader, I hope any in-game rewards for deity worship are not guaranteed, whether they're mainstream religions or not. It just cheapens everything.
It could be interesting if some god or gods decided to speak to or charge a fervent believer with some task, but i'd prefer it stay on the "roleplay" side of things, rather than a game mechanic benefit.
Well to be fair, it has been said the main driving point for the 10-year story is religion and that you are encouraged to pick one (altered atheism as an option for rebels) so I do think their will be tangible efforts. Also in the introduction to religion 4 I believe it was, it was said the goddess's Followers could receive mixed messages and have to interpret what they were being asked to do. While these aren't official DJ release these 3 statements indicate an outline of where they are aiming for.
If the main driving factor for the story is religion, your encouraged to follow one and it has been stated you can communicate with them it can be assumed that there will be tangible things associated with it.
As to how you would get them I think it would relate to time/power input like anything else in the game.
I.e. More power input = more power output. That is a cult leader of a 150 character following that does rituals every night and prayers 12 times a day that tries to commune with their deity every day will have much much more output from the gods then someone who says "hey religion 2, I choose you" then ignores religion.
Edit: I misread your post the first time around. I think we're more or less saying the same thing maybe with the power input thing? My bad.
I don't know anymore.
Posted By Wicked FlamezZ at 11:03 AM - Wed Mar 29 2017
Posted By Vucar at 9:54 PM - Mon Mar 27 2017
As a cult leader, I hope any in-game rewards for deity worship are not guaranteed, whether they're mainstream religions or not. It just cheapens everything.
It could be interesting if some god or gods decided to speak to or charge a fervent believer with some task, but i'd prefer it stay on the "roleplay" side of things, rather than a game mechanic benefit.
Well to be fair, it has been said the main driving point for the 10-year story is religion and that you are encouraged to pick one (altered atheism as an option for rebels) so I do think their will be tangible efforts. Also in the introduction to religion 4 I believe it was, it was said the goddess's Followers could receive mixed messages and have to interpret what they were being asked to do. While these aren't official DJ release these 3 statements indicate an outline of where they are aiming for.
If the main driving factor for the story is religion, your encouraged to follow one and it has been stated you can communicate with them it can be assumed that there will be tangible things associated with it.
As to how you would get them I think it would relate to time/power input like anything else in the game.
I.e. More power input = more power output. That is a cult leader of a 150 character following that does rituals every night and prayers 12 times a day that tries to commune with their deity every day will have much much more output from the gods then someone who says "hey religion 2, I choose you" then ignores religion.
Edit: I misread your post the first time around. I think we're more or less saying the same thing maybe with the power input thing? My bad.
What i really don't want to see happen is that the benefits of religion are so clear cut and guaranteed that we get several months into release and people are saying things like "yeah i can't come pvp yet, im still finishing my religion grind. probably going to be another week before i hit Prophet level and then my prayer boost will be high enough to be pvp-viable".
Just to be clear, cults will Not provide Any benefits from worship as it stands now and neither will alternative religions for that matter.
As far as I know the only worshiping bonuses come from one of the 6 mainstream religions and then I don't know if you can choose or if each different religion offers a different bonus. It would be near impossible for the mechanics to understand and promote all the different possible religions one can imagine, so the Devs have stuck with the original 6. Does this mean you can't roll play, absolutely not, there just will not be any bonuses associated with your religion/cult.
"Count Eldric Blackmoore of The Haven, offering direct support for the Hunters, Explorers and Gathers of Elyria"
Posted By Sullen at 3:30 PM - Wed Mar 29 2017
Just to be clear, cults will Not provide Any benefits from worship as it stands now and neither will alternative religions for that matter.
As far as I know the only worshiping bonuses come from one of the 6 mainstream religions and then I don't know if you can choose or if each different religion offers a different bonus. It would be near impossible for the mechanics to understand and promote all the different possible religions one can imagine, so the Devs have stuck with the original 6. Does this mean you can't roll play, absolutely not, there just will not be any bonuses associated with your religion/cult.
Cults in themselves by formation don't but you can assume the activities you would do as a cult with my said following would grant them quicker access to a future religious encounter. So joining a cult may not for example but the daily rituals or sacrifices that they require all members to do would in theory, indirectly making the cults the source as you may have not done those rituals had you not joined.
I don't know anymore.
Posted By Vucar
What i really don't want to see happen is that the benefits of religion are so clear cut and guaranteed that we get several months into release and people are saying things like "yeah i can't come pvp yet, im still finishing my religion grind. probably going to be another week before i hit Prophet level and then my prayer boost will be high enough to be pvp-viable".
I don't think that they will be that accessible tbh. Even if they are guranteed I would imagine the point to reach that guarantee would go so far out of your way making it impractical. Just as Caspian said that leveling scribing skills all the way to make your own laws as a noble would be impractical. I.e. It would take away from too much of the other gameplay to do half/half. Your either devoted or your not.
I would also imagine your actions in-game would affect your religious ties using a modified version of the like rep systems So using your powers to manipulate PvP for a non-righteous purpose may result in a loss of power and favor from a potential deity.
If your example, I don't think becoming a prophet or anything that gave such a significant booth would allow you to train in combat. So while you may have some holy power on your side, your such an amateur fighter that it doesn't matter.
In that case I believe you could make the same argument for alchemy right? If we rephrase the example?
"I can't come PvP right now I'm finishing my alchemy grind. I should discover new poisons by next week". From what they have said of poisons they can be a real game changer. So what's the difference between someone grinding alchemy for the combat bonus and grinding religion? If anything I would think alchemy would be more OP than direct combat buffs because they provide more utility than pure combat.
I don't know anymore.
What Vucar said is basically the core of what I am getting at with my comments, if exaggerated a little.
