Edit 1: Clarifying that when I say 100,000 population I am referring to absolute minimum pop. size that I know of when it comes to players + npcs

Edit 2: When it comes to NPCs, I am assuming they have abilities that DO NOT surpass players. For example, no legendary blacksmith NPCs due to how nobody could possibly become a legendary blacksmith in the first year of playing. I assumed they will be added (if at all) by the engine or devs when players are about to achieve said level.

Edit 3: I expected more negs...........

Public Service Announcement??:

Guys PLS remember that nobody at this point knows what each tier does (except that magic is somehow involved in mythical), so don't go overboard by saying money wins an advantage when you don't know what your ep will end up buying. I believe this is a HUGE assumption on part of many, leading to a debate based on rumour/assumptions rather than information that has been directly provided by the devs. I tried to stick to what I read/viewed in public Q&As as much as possible, so remember that a forum post is good for discussion BUT SHOULD NOT be treated as factual due to limited information.

Edit 4: Player Density As players may group together (not for certain, depending on initial placement). I will do math for if it was just players.

570/20,000 players = 2.85% that a player you meet will have a legendary item

Also, take into account that individuals will be spread across a huge map (stated already above) so the probability goes down. Probability would not go up, unless individuals with such items gathered together purposely, so this is for you meeting an unknown and new player.

Possible Defence of Opinion:

I have not put my money where my mouth is by pledging/kickstarting. I do think that having skin in the game can also tend to overreactions, so I like to think I have had a calm judgement of whats been going on.

Caspian stating in his post that EP Guide is ROUGH:

"With the introduction of our Exposition Point (EP) sale this week I wanted to take a moment and share the relative value of EP during exposition. This should give players a rough idea of how much EP they're going to want to purchase, if any, and what they can hope to buy with their EP. Note that the values listed below are relative, are subject to change, and are just a guideline."

The quote above is to argue against King Adam Burrfoot rebuttal of the "we don't know the specifics argument."

PS - Thats all I got.....

Actually, I rather think you're right. The majority of players won't even come into contact with a magical/relic/legendary/mystic item.

That's why I would personally make it so that only those with the proper package can see the EP store and buy EP.

I will have to correct you in thinking this game at launch will have any where close to 100,000 actual players. There will likely be only 10k at highest peak on a single server with a slight chance of 20k depending on how good this game is it could grow. So the chances are low sure, but then there is only a few positions offered for certain successful roles.

Depending on the value you give your guild, city, or what ever, there is a chance you could possibly be not used. They could even hire people from counties over in order to get the job done that they want.

The chances of becoming a needed individual with the profession lies squarely on how competitive you can be in the worker market place.

Legendary items etc are limited so they wont be common even if someone is rich

Posted By Gunghoe at 6:45 PM - Mon May 15 2017

I will have to correct you in thinking this game at launch will have any where close to 100,000 actual players. There will likely be only 10k at highest peak on a single server with a slight chance of 20k depending on how good this game is it could grow. So the chances are low sure, but then there is only a few positions offered for certain successful roles.

Depending on the value you give your guild, city, or what ever, there is a chance you could possibly be not used. They could even hire people from counties over in order to get the job done that they want.

The chances of becoming a needed individual with the profession lies squarely on how competitive you can be in the worker market place.

And that's the entire point of the game, if there's no one to be a swordsmith and you take up the job, then you are THE swordsmith.

If someone else is a great swordsmith and you want to take their place, you have a story.

If they are a member of a guild or a family or a school, then that changes the story.

If they are known for an item that is considered legendary (legendary sword blue print), then you will either want to take that item from them, replicate it, or find another item to be known for.

I like the math as a tool to oppose the hypothetical arguments of crying because a few people are scared. As to the 10k to 20k population argument, I think that those numbers will be passed after a few weeks simply because NPCs (and cautious players) will be reproducing and if this game has a successful launch more and more people will at least give it a try for only $30.

I see no reason to be worried about a flood of high level gear since it takes "48 real hours of nonstop walking to go from one side of the world to the other"... even if 500+ players have high level gear, it's going to be a big world. Side note, I'm a recruiting mayor that WILL be investing in artisan, maybe a rare if possible, crafting stations and tools to aid my subjects in building the life they want.

Posted By LorenzW at 9:50 PM - Mon May 15 2017

Posted By Gunghoe at 6:45 PM - Mon May 15 2017

I will have to correct you in thinking this game at launch will have any where close to 100,000 actual players. There will likely be only 10k at highest peak on a single server with a slight chance of 20k depending on how good this game is it could grow. So the chances are low sure, but then there is only a few positions offered for certain successful roles.

Depending on the value you give your guild, city, or what ever, there is a chance you could possibly be not used. They could even hire people from counties over in order to get the job done that they want.

The chances of becoming a needed individual with the profession lies squarely on how competitive you can be in the worker market place.

And that's the entire point of the game, if there's no one to be a swordsmith and you take up the job, then you are THE swordsmith.

If someone else is a great swordsmith and you want to take their place, you have a story.

If they are a member of a guild or a family or a school, then that changes the story.

If they are known for an item that is considered legendary (legendary sword blue print), then you will either want to take that item from them, replicate it, or find another item to be known for.

Sure they are rare, But the point remains that this is a marketing upset for the game. even if there is ways to become deviant.

The story shouldn't be oh I am behind this guy because he is able to achieve and learn faster than I am. Hell blue-prints are the least of my concern it's the advantages of having better equipment. Thus the efficiency they have will surpass those of other walks. What you are to expect me to buy a horse and wagon to carry the crafting station? And get away with it? get real.

Posted By Kelipski at 9:54 PM - Mon May 15 2017

I like the math as a tool to oppose the hypothetical arguments of crying because a few people are scared. As to the 10k to 20k population argument, I think that those numbers will be passed after a few weeks simply because NPCs (and cautious players) will be reproducing and if this game has a successful launch more and more people will at least give it a try for only $30.

I see no reason to be worried about a flood of high level gear since it takes "48 real hours of nonstop walking to go from one side of the world to the other"... even if 500+ players have high level gear, it's going to be a big world. Side note, I'm a recruiting mayor that WILL be investing in artisan, maybe a rare if possible, crafting stations and tools to aid my subjects in building the life they want.

you can't possibly include NPCs they aren't paying customers. If you include NPCs they have said there will be 200k + NPCs...

Posted By Gunghoe at 9:58 PM - Mon May 15 2017

Posted By Kelipski at 9:54 PM - Mon May 15 2017

I like the math as a tool to oppose the hypothetical arguments of crying because a few people are scared. As to the 10k to 20k population argument, I think that those numbers will be passed after a few weeks simply because NPCs (and cautious players) will be reproducing and if this game has a successful launch more and more people will at least give it a try for only $30.

I see no reason to be worried about a flood of high level gear since it takes "48 real hours of nonstop walking to go from one side of the world to the other"... even if 500+ players have high level gear, it's going to be a big world. Side note, I'm a recruiting mayor that WILL be investing in artisan, maybe a rare if possible, crafting stations and tools to aid my subjects in building the life they want.

you can't possibly include NPCs they aren't paying customers. If you include NPCs they have said there will be 200k + NPCs...

Ok....... so an even lower chance of coming across such an item. But since players, except wards as far as I know, come from NPCs the world is constantly growing. And since I wasn't talking about paying customers, I was referring to population size a character can encounter relative to population size of possible legendary item owners your argument means nothing.

Posted By Gunghoe at 9:45 PM - Mon May 15 2017

I will have to correct you in thinking this game at launch will have any where close to 100,000 actual players. There will likely be only 10k at highest peak on a single server with a slight chance of 20k depending on how good this game is it could grow. So the chances are low sure, but then there is only a few positions offered for certain successful roles.

Depending on the value you give your guild, city, or what ever, there is a chance you could possibly be not used. They could even hire people from counties over in order to get the job done that they want.

The chances of becoming a needed individual with the profession lies squarely on how competitive you can be in the worker market place.

Things I am not sure about: 1. What do you define as successful? 2. Are you assuming that NPCs will already be at these high skill level tiers for hiring (I am wondering this because players won't reach legendary skill until after several years of gameplay, according to what I have read)

You misunderstand population as player population solely. When I said 100,000 population, I included NPCs as well (I assumed that would be the minimum); I should have made that clear, my bad.

Even among those 10,000 to 20,000 players (I agree on that number of players), they will initially be spread out over a vast terrain that will be further expanded upon.

48 hours*1 m/s = 172,800 length of distance from one side of starting map to the other.

Increase unlikelihood of meeting from the already small 0.57%.

Posted By Kelipski at 10:02 PM - Mon May 15 2017

Posted By Gunghoe at 9:58 PM - Mon May 15 2017

Posted By Kelipski at 9:54 PM - Mon May 15 2017

I like the math as a tool to oppose the hypothetical arguments of crying because a few people are scared. As to the 10k to 20k population argument, I think that those numbers will be passed after a few weeks simply because NPCs (and cautious players) will be reproducing and if this game has a successful launch more and more people will at least give it a try for only $30.

I see no reason to be worried about a flood of high level gear since it takes "48 real hours of nonstop walking to go from one side of the world to the other"... even if 500+ players have high level gear, it's going to be a big world. Side note, I'm a recruiting mayor that WILL be investing in artisan, maybe a rare if possible, crafting stations and tools to aid my subjects in building the life they want.

you can't possibly include NPCs they aren't paying customers. If you include NPCs they have said there will be 200k + NPCs...

Ok....... so an even lower chance of coming across such an item. But since players, except wards as far as I know, come from NPCs the world is constantly growing. And since I wasn't talking about paying customers, I was referring to population size a character can encounter relative to population size of possible legendary item owners your argument means nothing.

I don't think you quite understand my argument then. The biggest concern is. What people see from the outside looking in. And it's a marketing disaster.

The other argument is, It would be nearly impossible to get into coveted positions, with out having money with this system in place. Just like any other game, if you aren't able to fill the role that's needed you will not be chosen for the role. If that means you are 20% behind others. You will likely not be able to keep a position, or be in position to compete for jobs asked for by bigger groups of players.

You will then be nothing more than a cog and mostly ignored other than locally. And when that happens you then don't have the motivation if there is no chance of catching up to the position's needed.

Just like an armor smith, in the future if an armor-smith is stuck on iron, while steal is what's needed for the military, you will likely not see the prosperity as the person creating steal items.

No matter the size of the population of players, There will not be many slots open for deals regarding the military. So your potential sales is much less if you are looking for only a random person, that may be looking for gear.

If you are a farmer that knows how to produce the most goods, you would likely land a better deal with a number of potential consumers and then again the military will also need food, drink and things. The kingdom, dukes, counts, will look for the best deal possible and hire them if needed to relocate.

To farther get across distance doesn't matter in the least if you are a sought after employee you will be payed to move to the spot you are most needed. There is no extent to where the meta-game begins. If you are highly sought after, you are indeed have many avenues of approach. The amount the officiate the information from players it doesn't matter the information will be there regardless how easy it is to start where you want. having a distance between players doesn't matter if they have pre-determined where they want to start.

You then will be disadvantaged, If they completely hide all information behind the game, and make sure very little information gets out. And make it impossible to where you want to start, then distance could be a factor for a very small time. This will also be extremely unfriendly to the player-base that are in groups from outside the game that want to be part of a family, in the desired location, not a ward. I will have bloodlines by the time the game gets to exposition. So I should be able to easily pick where I start with a family.

So 500 people will provide for the needs of the other tens of thousands? Your concerns are so ridiculous that I feel the need to explain basic economics. Sure, you may not be the king's weaponship but do you really think one guy with bought equipment is going to supply the kingdom? You think one farmer will be feeding the army? That makes no sense and if you have a counter argument ensure it's not a hypothetical that is nonsense...

Posted By Gunghoe at 9:56 PM - Mon May 15 2017

Sure they are rare, But the point remains that this is a marketing upset for the game. even if there is ways to become deviant.

The story shouldn't be oh I am behind this guy because he is able to achieve and learn faster than I am. Hell blue-prints are the least of my concern it's the advantages of having better equipment. Thus the efficiency they have will surpass those of other walks. What you are to expect me to buy a horse and wagon to carry the crafting station? And get away with it? get real.

The story shouldn't be about the guy who achieved/learned faster? (I feel that I am missing something)

At the moment, the benefits of each tier haven't been said so we don't know how large the difference of each tier would be as we don't know what is. You have a point that we should worry about what the possible difference between quality tiers, but at the moment we have nothing to work with (no math for stats) to conclusively decide anything.

Blueprints don't provide the "how," but instead provide the "what." Someone with a legendary blueprint would understand what items would go into making said legendary item, but wouldn't be able to make said legendary item till an individual with the skill to physically put it together comes along.

As for legendary items, you can only have one per soul (based on my reading of information) so that should completely get rid of any chance for the market being flooded.

That moment when you say "a few people" but those for the system are the minority. RIP.

Posted By LukeSpyro at 10:24 PM - Mon May 15 2017

Posted By Gunghoe at 9:56 PM - Mon May 15 2017

Sure they are rare, But the point remains that this is a marketing upset for the game. even if there is ways to become deviant.

The story shouldn't be oh I am behind this guy because he is able to achieve and learn faster than I am. Hell blue-prints are the least of my concern it's the advantages of having better equipment. Thus the efficiency they have will surpass those of other walks. What you are to expect me to buy a horse and wagon to carry the crafting station? And get away with it? get real.

The story shouldn't be about the guy who achieved/learned faster? (I feel that I am missing something)

At the moment, the benefits of each tier haven't been said so we don't know how large the difference of each tier would be as we don't know what is. You have a point that we should worry about what the possible difference between quality tiers, but at the moment we have nothing to work with (no math for stats) to conclusively decide anything.

Blueprints don't provide the "how," but instead provide the "what." Someone with a legendary blueprint would understand what items would go into making said legendary item, but wouldn't be able to make said legendary item till an individual with the skill to physically put it together comes along.

As for legendary items, you can only have one per soul (based on my reading of information) so that should completely get rid of any chance for the market being flooded.

It doesn't matter about story in games it never does, If you have a desired role to fill and you aren't possibly able to fill that role because some one was able to buy advantages and start ahead of you, you have a problem. People quickly are rendered useless till you meet the needed level for the position offered.

So if you aren't able to fill an order at the price that is competitive with everything else. Then you will have a much less chance in succeeding. It's not like people will want to have a trade mission that encompasses five counties over. They would rather hire the person and move him to a place he would be much more useful.

The idea that because you don't have the money to be competitive and that's the main thing you can blame, that doesn't sit right with me.

And that's beside the point entirely this is a marketing flaw that just happened.