COMMUNITY - FORUMS - LUNA GENERAL
Why are Duchies on N so badly disproportionate?

Having see the new maps I was immediately struck by what I can only assume is a terrible stroke on the part of the Dutchy border drawing code. Several Duchies in K1 and K2 on N are wildly out of proportion. We always expected their to be variation is sizes but in a few places on N they are extreme relative to ALL the other duchyline maps on and the entire rest of map N too.

As of right now this highlighted map is the best interpretation the community has of N (from Violets thread)

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/29051/labeled-maps?page=1#post317259

Their are two separate clusters of bad Duchies. First the Y1, Y2, Y3 grouping. While Y2 is a reasonable size Y1 is simply too small to be viable for anyone's use. If 24 counties were located here they would all need to be postage stamps. Meanwhile Y3 is hugely over-sized. Simply merging Y1 and Y2 and then splitting Y3 in half would produce 3 far more equal sized Duchies, how can a map algorithm be so bad as to not see that and split/merge according?

But the second group is even worse, while R4 and R5 are borderline small R12 is ludicrously small. Meanwhile R1, R2, R3 are all over-sized and clearly account for the missing land. The only reason R12 seems to be separate from R5 is the arbitrary rule that duchies don't cross biome borders. Again a simple solution is to merge R12 and R5 and then make 2 more equal size Dutchies from the land in R4 and R3. Again I'm baffled how the map algorithm could produce such bad results, and if it did why it was not re-run or corrected by hand.


Seneschal for the Hrothi County of Iskar, Recruiter for the Duchy of Aritaur

https://discord.gg/qRQ3Zj6

11/7/2018 9:55:44 AM #1

Luck of the draw I think. If you don't like it, don't vote for N. Also highly likely that these will end up NPC run duchy. But at the same time small can be beautiful.

I'm wondering about this arbitrary rule about them not crossing biome and I'm curious if this is only a pre-launch condition. Once the great game starts and Casus Beli are flying all over the place, duchy claiming independence, new counties forming etc. Could it be possible, say for a whole duchy to change allegiance to a new monarch and be absorbed into that kingdom?


Friend & Conquest Code: 6B3A23

11/7/2018 2:12:52 PM #2

I imagine the duchy lines are being shaped by the land features, more mountainous areas probably culminate in land that is separated. Rather than have duchies with land that would be inaccessible to it the algorithm probably focused on it be cohesive.


11/7/2018 3:10:34 PM #3

I actually like the fact that some of these are so varied.

The same way some of the Counties are going to be heavily populated and others are going to be almost void of population.

And some will also be higher in resources than others.

I see it as a way to pick and chose which one you like vs. all of them being approximately the same.

Variety vs. Homogeneity.

It can also be used as a way to drive the story in various ways.

A comparison would be in the way the various shapes, sizes and populations of the U.S. states effect the nations voting, economics, and such things.

For a simple example, I would look at Montana and Delaware.

Both are States, but they are also very different in size.

So will all these Duchies get the same representation in the Kingdoms government...like in the Senate?

Or will the representation be based on population...like in the House of Reps?

That's just the first thing I could think of, but I'm sure that there are a lot more conflicts/opportunities you could develop based on the disparities.


We Are The Many... We Are The One... We Are THE WAERD !!!

11/7/2018 3:35:28 PM #4

Start state, not best state. So much change will happen!

At this point as a double county I have set my sights on a tiny two square kilometers - if just avoid all chances of "am disappoint".

Consolation: Luna still has 'A' as a solid backup plan.


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11/7/2018 4:00:11 PM #5

Posted By KleinVonKrauler at 09:12 AM - Wed Nov 07 2018

I imagine the duchy lines are being shaped by the land features, more mountainous areas probably culminate in land that is separated. Rather than have duchies with land that would be inaccessible to it the algorithm probably focused on it be cohesive.

That also brings up another good point, that size isn't everything. Sure you may have the largest Duchy in the kingdom but you may have the most unusable space for development or agriculture in the kingdom as well.

11/7/2018 4:01:17 PM #6

Duchy lines in A are even worse in many places.

Frankly, some duchies are going to be better picks than others. Some might have some topology of landscape that makes them that way that we simply can't see.

Bottom line, I don't expect, or want, some "super fair formula" ran to make sure every duchy has equivalent square footage or whatever.

Maybe there are Dukes that want concentrated communities, and having a smaller duchy allows for that? The average duchy is freaking huge. Nothing wrong with wanting to have one that allows for easier collaboration and shorter travel time within...


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11/7/2018 4:06:30 PM #7

We also don't know which resources are where. Those small duchies in the mountains may have large underground settlements and rich ore deposits in them. Square kilometer measurements aren't everything.


11/7/2018 4:28:18 PM #8

moved to Luna general as now that we are in R2 map N is only applicable to Luna.

11/7/2018 4:31:47 PM #9

There’s always the sedicim (or wars) you can use to reshape duchy and kingdom lines.

Besides, not all dukes need to be equal.
On top of that, given PCs pick before NPCs and NPCs get the leftovers, the “bad” duchies will be NPC controlled anyway, leaving more real estate for the PCs (however the smallest duchies may not always be the worst)


Count LizenÇace VeLeîjres of Mydra's Crossing, VII of the order of the IX.

Order of IX

11/7/2018 4:35:03 PM #10

Also, isn't the king able to "redraw" lines within his own kingdom eventually via "ways", or is that only during Sedecim as well?


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11/7/2018 6:19:14 PM #11

wouldn't it be really boring if everything was more or less the same size on every single map?

11/8/2018 12:41:56 AM #12

People keep speculating that something 'good' will balance out tiny Dutchies, such as higher population density or resources.

This is stone-cold wrong, Caspian confirmed that nothing balances small areas, they just have less of everything.

It's quite clear that map generation is being done 'top-down' not bottom-up. They generate the continents first, then subdivide for duchies, then subdivide for counties, then generate the actual vegetation and the like. And lastly settlements get generated based on the available resources in the area. So a tiny county is just going to have fewer settlements of smaller size.


Seneschal for the Hrothi County of Iskar, Recruiter for the Duchy of Aritaur

https://discord.gg/qRQ3Zj6

11/8/2018 1:15:07 AM #13

Keep in mind that some of the duchy boundaries are land features such as mountain ranges (these are the biome lines). If you think a duchy is very big there is most likely a break in it with natural features. Also, Snipehunter pointed out the other day that a couple of the maps I believe including N had a line missing for a few of the duchies.

Though at the end of the day not all duchies will be exactly the same and you will have a chance to potentially remedy this during KoE.


I'm not a doctor.

11/8/2018 1:27:46 AM #14

I'm sure SBS have this planned for a reason


11/8/2018 1:49:08 AM #15

Posted By Marovec at 11:35 AM - Wed Nov 07 2018

Also, isn't the king able to "redraw" lines within his own kingdom eventually via "ways", or is that only during Sedecim as well?

During sedicim, and not without permission of the dukes involved I think


Count LizenÇace VeLeîjres of Mydra's Crossing, VII of the order of the IX.

Order of IX