Explanation: The reason for the word Zeitgeist which usually means the spirit of a year or age is that I couldn't think of a more appropriate word at the time of writing this. Something to the effect of "the collective spirit of a people under certain conditions."

Edit: I have since been introduced to the word "Egregore" which seems to be appropriate for what I am going for.

Interesting theory, let me share mine if you will :P

I want to say the Twofold Queen is the embodiment of balance. In light dark, in death life. But this almost seems too convenient for, as you said, a recently appearing god. Why would there be no records of her in history, surely the world has needed balancing before?

My second guess would be something like an Ouroboros, thinking circle of life, beginning and end type stuff. Reasoning for this guess is we are coming to a point where calamity is upon us and the TfQ has revealed herself in order to help us get through the end times and remain alive at the end. Kinda like the inner-workings of the universe manifesting itself in a way that makes sense to us because the coming 10 year story will be more dangerous than any historic events.

I like your theory on it being the manifestation of the collective need of the people in their hardest times though. Definitely on my list of possibilities now :D

Posted By Labbe at 12:43 PM - Sat Dec 15 2018

Interesting theory, let me share mine if you will :P

I want to say the Twofold Queen is the embodiment of balance. In light dark, in death life. But this almost seems to convenient for, as you said, a recently appearing god. Why would there be no records of her in history, surely the world has needed balancing before?

My second guess would be something like an Ouroboros, thinking circle of life, beginning and end type stuff. Reasoning for this guess is we are coming to a point where calamity is upon us and the TfQ has revealed herself in order to help us get through the end times and remain alive at the end. Kinda like the inner-workings of the universe manifesting itself in a way that makes sense to us because the coming 10 year story will be more dangerous than any historic events.

I like your theory on it being the manifestation of the collective need of the people in their hardest times though. Definitely on my list of possibilities now :D

I've always love the Ouroboros. Perhaps she is more a manifestation of Elyria's will in times of crisis? Really neat stuff.

I feel that her appearing before specific tribes under specific conditions is key to understanding her nature. Maybe Elyria has some built in fail-safe phenomena and you're right that she is just a manifestation of that. The trigger for the fail-safe being the conditions those tribes met. Exile and/or near extinction.

I think the Two-fold Queen is a personification of powers in the universe that are superior to, or perhaps more basic or primeval than, those worshiped as deities by the Virtori and the Qin. As a tifa, I don't deny the existence of those other powers, and much less the animism of the Faedin. I simply hold the Two-fold Queen to apply to something much more powerful, albeit less evident.

I can totally agree with the OP's take on the kinds of situations where the TfQ reveals herself. Only where all of an individual's prior beliefs are stripped aside as insufficient to the current situation can the conception by that individual of a higher or deeper reality come to be.

I'm very happy to see some Al'tifali theological speculation. I plan on doing a lot of it in the game.

Posted By Poldano at 01:05 AM - Sun Dec 16 2018

Only where all of an individual's prior beliefs are stripped aside as insufficient to the current situation can the conception by that individual of a higher or deeper reality come to be.

I do think that this is a key concept in play here.

And one of the true mysteries of this path.

Is it born from a loss of faith?

For those interested in Theorycrafting...everything from here on should be considered Theologycrafting:

Only when all is lost...can the new arise?

Like a fire clears a forest...Or a flood scours a plain...Is it the "death" of the old "faith" that generates the rebirth of the "new faith"?

While the Faedin see this as a linear progression...from a lower form to a higher one...finally coming into fruition, in their own forms, at the end of this chain.

Do the Al'tifali see it as a more circular path?

Both Al'tifali religions value the concept of the global balance...they just see opposite ways of getting there.

Thus are The Waerd the Ying to the Dras Yang?

Or vice versa?

And is the Two-Fold Queen the Taiji of an "Elyrian" Taoism?

"Taiji is understood to be the highest conceivable principle, that from which existence flows. This is very similar to the Daoist idea "reversal is the movement of the Dao". The "supreme ultimate" creates yang and yin: movement generates yang; when its activity reaches its limit, it becomes tranquil. Through tranquility the supreme ultimate generates yin. When tranquility has reached its limit, there is a return to movement. Movement and tranquility, in alternation, become each the source of the other. The distinction between the yin and yang is determined and the two forms (that is, the yin and yang) stand revealed. By the transformations of the yang and the union of the yin, the 5 elements (Qi) of water, fire, wood, metal and earth are produced. These 5 Qi become diffused, which creates harmony. Once there is harmony the 4 seasons can occur. Yin and yang produced all things, and these in their turn produce and reproduce, this makes these processes never ending"---from the Wikipedia entry on Taiji in Taoist philosophy.

Interesting.

Could be an additional criteria, first having to lose your old faith along with exile and near death. It definitely fits the Waerd's history with their involvement in the last god war. The Dras on the other hand don't seem to have a defining moment of where they lost their Janoan Faedinism faith. It could of happened while enslaved to the Janoa, or when the To'resk turned on the Dras, or when they settled in the swamps.

It's a little on the vague side for Dras which makes me think that this may not necessarily be part of the criteria. They could of held onto their Faedinism beliefs right up to when the TFQ first appeared before them for all we know.

Another question I have regarding the TFQ is "when" she appeared before the Waerd and Dras. Who met the TFQ first? Or weirder, what if these were simultaneous events?

That's pretty much sums up what my county is about, I want those that are exiled to become part of my community. A place that they aren't going to be judged on their past principals or judgment, That's why I feel like the waerd are a good place for these people with that mindset. Though it's much more practical rather than the other way around. I want people that are exiled from other lands to come to my place and have a place they can call home.

I do recall reading somewhere in Dras lore that the vision(s) of the Two-fold Queen came to the Dras after they entered the swamps, but I would have to check to make sure of that. Having it happen in the swamps is more compatible with the exile-stress theory than having it happen with the To'resk.

It's too early to commit to specific historical assertions that may be in conflict with future lore revelations. However, there is no end to possibilities of speculation of what is beyond humann ken. We just have to make sure to keep it speculative, unless we seriously want to roleplay a potentially heretical cult. Doing so is OK, but I would only want to do so with full knowledge that that was what I was doing, and that other people knew I was doing it.

Fascinated by the subject. Though I wonder how many of you have noticed that she's evidently the games story and event engine personified? So perhaps reading up on the little we know about that engine may draw inspiration and connect some of the dots about her as well in regards to lore.