COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Waerd and Real World religions.

The possibility of Waerd performing Sky Burials was raised by Caspian in a recent Discord quote:

Caspian Quote

Given that in the real world there are several cultures and 3 main religious groups that perform them, I thought I would look at each, and how they might influence the Waerd religious views in the game.

WARNING. SOME OF THE IMAGES I AM LINKING TO IN THIS THREAD SHOW DEAD HUMAN BODIES IN VARIOUS STATES OF DECOMPOSITION/BEING EATEN. PLEASE DO NOT CLICK THE IMAGES IF THIS MAY DISTRESS YOU!

I will note links that might contain such content.

Tibetan Buddhism

The most famous and well known culture/religion for sky burials is Tibetan Buddhism (warning this wikipedia link contains images some might find disturbing).

The core principle behind Buddhist Sky Burials is that the body is recycled back into nature as the flesh is tripped by the vultures and other carrion eaters, who then return us back into the circle of life (ala Lion King), just as our souls/spirits are continuously reborn. This highlights both our connection to the natural world around us, and the nature of impermanence and futility attachment to the material world.

This has some clear parallels with both Waerd religious and cultural views, as well the core game mechanics around souls and sparks themselves. As our souls are essentially endlessly reborn through the use of sparks.

The process of recycling the dead, through the extraction of water from bodily fluids allows the Waerd to preserve water in a hostile arid environment, and then feeding the dead to the local wildlife helps to sustain the balance in the local ecosystems, maintaining survival in the hostile environments for future generations. The balance and survival aspects of Waerd culture and religion fits perfectly with the Tibetan Buddhist world view.

The process involves the active dismemberment of the corpse, often by a relative of the deceased. This makes it easier for the carrion birds to eat the flesh without dragging pieces of the body all of the field. Once the body has been stripped down to only bones, the final pieces of the body are laid to rest underneath a simple unmarked pile of stones, or sometimes even gathered and further broken down.

warning, links to images containing bodies

Tibetan Sky Burial 1

Tibetan Sky Burial 2

Tibetan Sky Burial 3

Video showing the practice and explaining it.

Other Tibetan practices around impermanence and balance could potentially also fit well with the Waerd and Dras (possibly even Kypiq) cultures, such as demonstrations on impermanence using Mandalas. These are painstakingly made from dyed sand, and take months - sometimes years - to complete. Upon completion they are viewed for a short period before being swept away by the monks.

Tengrist Shamanism

Tengrism is an ancient pagan religion built on the worship of the great sky god Tengri, and intertwined with various regional "animist" and ancestral worship views. Tengrists see spirits within everything around them, and the passage of the dead to the spirit world is important. Spirits that are not able to journey to join the spirit world can become trapped on earth, often possessing people they held strong attachments to in life, causing sickness and mental instability.

Tengrism also overlaps heavily with many of the northern Buddhist views, The Khans of the Mongolian empire famous for directly adopting both Buddhist and Confucianism views on balance and impermanence into Tengrism during the time of the Mongolian Empire and Yuan Dynasty in China.

Tengrism varies wildly from region to region, with Siberian Tengrism, Chinese/Monglian Tengrism, Central Asian Tengrism and Middle Eastern Tengrism holding very different views and rituals on some aspects of the issue of death. Part of this is because at the heart of Tengrism is the belief that Tengrism isn't the only true religion and the other cultures and religious views should be respected (ironically this is one of the reasons the Mongolian empire was both successful, and also eventually collapsed. An irony not lost on Tengrists).

Waerd culture and religion is much less tolerant than real life Tengrism, however it does mirror both a central deity figure who demands balance and honor (The Two Fold Queen), and the belief in the spirit world being ever-present in reality around them.

The potential for much overlap between this diverse and beautiful real world religion and the Waerd religious views are huge. Especially as Tengrism has many very practical aspects focused on survival in a hostile environment, and is heavily centered around community and a "community spirit", as well as a "spirit of the people". The Tengrist view on the community being of greater importance than the individual are mirrored already heavily in what we know about Waerd cultural outlooks.

Video of a Tengrist ritual

Tengrist Musical Chanting/Throat singing

Persian Zoroastrianism

The Persian Zoroastrians are another real world religion that practiced sky burials. Their process however was more focused on elevating the dead and allowing their spirits to reach the Gods, or later and into the modern times, Ahura Mazda as the one true God and creator of all things. Some small Persian Shia islamic sects also use the practice, though it is viewed as Haram (unclean) by almost all Muslims. The principle here being that the elements of earth and fire are sacred and should not be "profaned" by rotting corpses. As such they construct large adobe/stone towers to raise the bodies up for Carrion birds to consume.

These also serve practical uses in preventing decaying corpses from contaminating underground water supplies, as well as feeding local birdlife in a fashion similar to the Tibetan Buddhism practice. Given the arid regions of the Waerd, aesthetically this fits the closest to the Waerd biome-wise, and Persian cultures themselves parallel Waerd culture in many other areas - especially in terms of dress etc.

Video showing a Tower used for Sky Burials

warning, links to images containing bodies

Zoroastrian Tower of Silence 1

Zoroastrian Tower of Silence 2 - EXTREMELY GRAPHIC

Fire and Desert life, especially respect toward food and community feature heavily in Zoroastrian faith. Which makes a perfect match for the lifestyle of Waerd in their arid biomes. The strong associations with fire and earth elements and use of elemental magic ties into aspects of the Two Fold Queen's view on the functions of the universe with fire and water being both essential for life. "Do the right thing because it is the right thing to do" and being respectful, and a positive part of the your community.

With the close ties between Zoroastrianism and Dualistic dark vs light religious views, a strong sense of community and balance in all things, as well as practices such as Sky Burials, Zoroastrianism has perhaps the closest links to the Waerd faith in the Two Fold Queen out of all of these.

I hope that this thread can help people to see the potential for extremely deep roleplaying and character development within the Waerd. Please if I made a mistake or left something out, mention it in the comments. I am more than happy to update this and lookn forward to further discussion. ^_^

4/21/2019 8:13:39 AM #1

Potential fictional crossovers

A quick list of crossovers with the above religions in other works of fiction.

Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind

Strong Zoroastrian and Shinto themes

Strong themes of balance and cycles in nature also.

This probably fits much better with the Kypiq outlook on things than the Waerd. However the heavy use of Zoroastrian and Christian themes, as well as the views of the valley people about death and renewal (such as when Nausicaas father dies), have potential for Waerd roleplay overlap.

Game of Thrones. R'hllor

Strong Zoroastrian themes

While not featuring sky burials or any connection to rebirth and nature, the fire/elemental aspect, and focused on purity correlate very heavily with much of Zoroastrian belief. The focus on R'hillor being the "one true God" also parallels closely with the Ahura Mazda.

Dune - Fremen of Arrakis

Arabic culture and Zoroastrian religion

The Fremen of Arrakis are a desert culture who survive by recycling all of the water within their dead. Their religious views feature heavily around water, fire and the cycle of rebirth, and a heavy reliance on psychoactive drugs. Most notably the water of life, taken from the Sandworms of Arrakis. Many of these practices are mirrored within the Waerd culture (extracting blood from the dead to preserve the water fort example).

Tripping out hard on the water of life

4/21/2019 4:04:47 PM #2

Thanks for this post!! I had not even thought of such a thing but I like the idea of these sky burials for this tribe. Considerations for burials and how the matter will be handled, we have options like this in our real lives, cremation, traditional burial, tombs and the like but cemeteries do take up land/space. The RP around things like this would give RPers opportunity to get even more creative in matters of life and death. But does this change things? The graphics around this can be a bit much, like would we see the body on the tower as it decomposes? I wouldn't mind that. But would that open the door to corpse snatching.. Necromancers on the prowl.. Not that they couldn't just dig someone up, but hey here's a body just laying around...so.. I wouldn't mind that either. I think you are right about the roleplay part, Cant wait for more information on this.


4/22/2019 7:47:43 AM #3

If the bodies were elevated and surrounded by walls or fences, they wouldn't necessarily be visible. Some of the pictures show rather remote locations on towers on hills, and things like that are anything but subject to unintentional observation.


4/22/2019 11:20:45 AM #4

Posted By Poldano at 5:47 PM - Mon Apr 22 2019

If the bodies were elevated and surrounded by walls or fences, they wouldn't necessarily be visible. Some of the pictures show rather remote locations on towers on hills, and things like that are anything but subject to unintentional observation.

Absolutely true. Some of the images I linked to do show the bodies inside in a state of decomposition though. I don't want anyone to lose their lunch or have nightmares is all.

4/23/2019 5:58:23 AM #5

Dras are said to expose their dead on platforms, so we are already in a situation where some people may "lose their lunches". Dras cemeteries are indeed said to be enclosed behind walls. The fact that both Dras and Waerd are culturally tifa suggests that sky burial is connected to Al'tifali. I see ample arguments for the OP's suggestion.


4/23/2019 6:05:00 AM #6

As for potential crossovers you should definitely add the Aiel from the Wheel of Time series. They match them so well! Hence Caspians love and past (wanted) work on the series.
Especially the covering of the face for killing or battle. I love them and this idea very much.

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Aiel


4/23/2019 6:05:32 AM #7

Posted By Poldano at 3:58 PM - Tue Apr 23 2019

Dras are said to expose their dead on platforms, so we are already in a situation where some people may "lose their lunches". Dras cemeteries are indeed said to be enclosed behind walls. The fact that both Dras and Waerd are culturally tifa suggests that sky burial is connected to Al'tifali. I see ample arguments for the OP's suggestion.

Yeah the Dras method sounds very similar to the Zoroastrian Sky Burials. I think that researching Persian and Indian region cultures and Zoroastrianism would be useful for anyone looking to play Waerd or Dras, as it would provide good source material and something to connect with for rp purposes.

4/23/2019 6:13:16 AM #8

I originally saw Taoism as the inspiration for Al'tifali. That is because of the diminution of the notions of right and wrong. I see Zoroastrianism as fundamentally dualistic, whereas Taoism seems to treat all dualisms as illusional. Maybe I'm wrong.


4/23/2019 1:52:58 PM #9

I'm now picturing a ceremonial ritual involving the drinking of the purified fluids at a communal funeral service.

A single Priest begins by holding The Cup aloft and leading the chant:

"The Body passes...The Blood remains."

The Cup is then passed to the Congregants.

A Group response is then repeated as each of The Waerd present takes a turn drinking from The Cup:

"The Blood of Each...The Blood of All."


We Are The Many... We Are The One... We Are THE WAERD !!!

4/24/2019 3:55:21 AM #10

Posted By Poldano at 4:13 PM - Tue Apr 23 2019

I originally saw Taoism as the inspiration for Al'tifali. That is because of the diminution of the notions of right and wrong. I see Zoroastrianism as fundamentally dualistic, whereas Taoism seems to treat all dualisms as illusional. Maybe I'm wrong.

Spot on actually.

I was exploring specifically Sky Burials here, however Taoism is the root inspiration for the Waerd perspective of Al'tifali.

So certainly it is worth having a read about Taoist beliefs to help get an understanding of the Waerd.

The way it looks to me is that the Dras took the Taoist foundation and went more Confucius/Shinto route, whereas the Waerd kept it more in line with Tengrism/Tibetan Buddhism/Zoroastrian feel. But the Toaism is the kind of "root" base for the religion.

Posted By kajoreh at 11:52 PM - Tue Apr 23 2019

I'm now picturing a ceremonial ritual involving the drinking of the purified fluids at a communal funeral service.

A single Priest begins by holding The Cup aloft and leading the chant:

"The Body passes...The Blood remains."

The Cup is then passed to the Congregants.

A Group response is then repeated as each of The Waerd present takes a turn drinking from The Cup:

"The Blood of Each...The Blood of All."

love it!!

Respect for the dead and their part in the balance of things is well reflected in that, as well as the practical nature to recycle the water in the body.

Posted By Vashric at 4:05 PM - Tue Apr 23 2019

As for potential crossovers you should definitely add the Aiel from the Wheel of Time series. They match them so well! Hence Caspians love and past (wanted) work on the series.
Especially the covering of the face for killing or battle. I love them and this idea very much.

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Aiel

Missed this, as we had both posted at the same time. I'm not familiar with the material, if you could give a brief explanation (similar to what I did above), then that would be awesome.

4/24/2019 10:03:02 AM #11

The Sky Burials tend to be in hard, rocky regions where actual burial would require masonry. The Israelites favored wrapping bodies with spices and letting the bodies dry out in rock tombs. When only bones were left, they were placed in ossuaries or stone boxes.

Other burial practices especially in sandy regions could involve burying the body in the sand so that it would dry out before another burial process that was more permanent.

The Inuit in the arctic cannot bury in the frozen ground so they preferred to sew a body in a caribou skin and then place rocks over it to make a cairn. Sometimes these cairns were destroyed by the elements or wild animals however. There were some arctic areas that could have human bones scattered on the rocky shores where cairns had been destroyed.

In areas where some kind of burial underground is possible, generally people do; however, Sky Burials meld religious beliefs perhaps with convenience.

Other cultures may prefer cremation and then a ritual for the ashes. Cremation is a fast method to dispose of many bodies and often done during war or in highly populated areas.


Map H --because one word "Nessie." Do you want an inland sea? Well, do ya?