1. You aren't in the family, unless you are in the family. The Waerd are very devoted to their families/communites they are born into. Obviously, players can treat you as family de facto, so there is a bit of a work around.

2. I like to think that family is family. Elders may not be happy because of how half-breeds attract attention. Not great for a culture that is heavily invested in the information trade.

3. There needs to be some kind of connection in order to be considered family.

Once non-RP players and pvp-centric players get into the Waerd, i think a lot of this lore and family stuff will break down quickly -- especially if an entire Waerd community is dominated by players, not npcs.

Posted By Vucar at 4:52 PM - Mon Oct 21 2019

Once non-RP players and pvp-centric players get into the Waerd, i think a lot of this lore and family stuff will break down quickly -- especially if an entire Waerd community is dominated by players, not npcs.

Exactly my reason for the questions, as the lore and traditions of the Waerd would normally go against it, but the players are not bound to any of that.

I want to try and answer a couple of the questions here:

Everything for the Waerd is black and white, you either are Waerd, or you aren't. A half breed is not a Waerd and if say for example a Hrothi whole heartedly embraces the Two Fold Queen, awesome, they will be afforded the same level of friendship the Dras are.

One of the reasons the Waerd would not accept a member of another tribe, or a half breed as one of the Told is because to be blunt, they won't look like the rest. Part of being Waerd is to be so much a part of the collective that you are hardly an individual, hence giving up your name, and one factor in this is how every Waerd look so similar, to be half Waerd half Dras, you won't look like the others and therefore will always stand apart from the rest of the settlement.

Posted By Vucar at 10:52 PM - Mon Oct 21 2019

Once non-RP players and pvp-centric players get into the Waerd, i think a lot of this lore and family stuff will break down quickly -- especially if an entire Waerd community is dominated by players, not npcs.

I don't see this being an issue, since one Waerd Duchy can have up to 8,000 citizens, the human players will never outnumber the NPC's, they may in a town, but if a town becomes mostly player run and they start to act in ways against the culture of the Waerd and the wishes of the Two Fold Queen, then the Familiars will step in.

Posted By Khalma at 07:26 AM - Tue Oct 22 2019

if a town becomes mostly player run and they start to act in ways against the culture of the Waerd and the wishes of the Two Fold Queen, then the Familiars will step in.

Maybe, maybe not. We don't know any of the game mechanics of this. Even if they did, it would likely be trivially easy to trick the npcs into not doing anything by gaming the system.

Don't ever doubt the capacity for players to find a way to outsmart npcs.

I more meant the player Familiars would step in, most Waerd Duchies will have a player in charge, and there are a decent amount of Counts across the servers.

It is possible that they could remain undetected for a while, but if a town acting against the Waerd culture and the Al'Tifali religion, it will be found eventually.

Posted By Khalma at 10:39 AM - Tue Oct 22 2019

I more meant the player Familiars would step in, most Waerd Duchies will have a player in charge, and there are a decent amount of Counts across the servers.

It is possible that they could remain undetected for a while, but if a town acting against the Waerd culture and the Al'Tifali religion, it will be found eventually.

I suppose we'll see, but I remain skeptical that players will enforce this lore on their own to the extent you think they will.

Metagaming and min-maxing have a tendency to weed out roleplayers, and a tribe that has been described as the perfect assassins will draw many pvpers.

Firstly, the Story Engine itself and Rumor system enforces the RP aspects.

If a Waerd settlement is majority players and they disregard their character’s RP and the Waerd way of doing things, other Waerd in the region will regard them as outsiders and turn on them, cutting off trade and potentially becoming hostile.

We have ways to gradually reshape culture and religion, but simply disregarding the important roleplaying and story aspects of any tribe is going to lead to huge issues, given the extremity of Waerd culture this will be the most pronounced for the Waerd.

Also, all of the players who have placed in Waerd lands so far have done so because they love the Waerd more or less as they stand. Some like me are going to attempt to slightly reshape the Waerd a little to make them a bit more open to outsiders and a bit more flexible. However I am in the minority and my goals are still very small (working on the Shrublands Waerd who are already slightly more open than usual).

So you can bet your local Count or Duke will step in and make a point of enforcing Waerd culture, if not also religious views.

If you are in the Semi-Arid Desert there are huge benefits to the Waerd way of doing things as well.

As for half-breeds, as Khalma said, a Al’tifali half Waerd will be treated about the same as the Dras. If raised in Waerd culture you might be able to participate in most things, even be part of the Waerd family in that town, but your status will always be the bottom rung. You will largely be an outcast socially.

Waerd aren’t cruel or callous and an individual could always focus heavily on social interaction and build meaningful relationships etc, you won’t be left to starve etc. However you will never, ever, be Waerd and that will show in some things.

If you wish to play in Waerd lands, especially the Semi-Arid desert, I’d suggest:

• Talk to, and work with your local Count and Duke.
• Become well versed in Waerd lore and try to mostly RP as close as possible.
• Be prepared to be Weard and stay Waerd for generations in that lineage.
• Reach out and connect with the existing Waerd societies on your server (they exist).

Posted By Taymuraz at 02:29 AM - Wed Oct 23 2019

Firstly, the Story Engine itself and Rumor system enforces the RP aspects.

Can you cite a source for this? I've never read that roleplaying will be imposed by game mechanics in CoE, much less that the story engine or rumor system will sanction us for not roleplaying.

As a player that love waerd, I wouldn't enforce RP on anyone. People like waerd for different reasons and some are non RP. Some like the tactical advantage of group combat, the information across distances, their looks, their crafting abilities, and weapon use. A lot of people dislike the community sharing which is something I'm going to try to do away with or greatly diminish as a count. It was also said that over time you can change how npcs view the world. There are going to be a lot of half breed waerds, other tribes, or players who will be willing to trade with.

Posted By Vucar at 07:16 AM - Wed Oct 23 2019

Posted By Taymuraz at 02:29 AM - Wed Oct 23 2019

Firstly, the Story Engine itself and Rumor system enforces the RP aspects.

Can you cite a source for this? I've never read that roleplaying will be imposed by game mechanics in CoE, much less that the story engine or rumor system will sanction us for not roleplaying.

Taymuraz is referring to the way the story engine and the rumor system influences PC and NPC behavior in general through "Taboos" and Reputation.

Caspian ☁01/25/2019
[...]Each tribe has different things that are considered "taboo". Those are things which are not necessarily illegal but will affect the way NPCs interact with you.

Beyond that, laws are laws regardless of which tribe you are.

And then religions view deeds with different lenses. What's considered moral or ethical by the Al'tifali may not be viewed as moral or ethical by the Virtori. So your reputation within those entities differ as well.
Source: Discord

One thing The Waerd value is the concept of a "perfect" Waerd. Therefore, many of their taboos involve this notion of progressing toward that ideal. Half-breeds are so far from perfection as to be no longer considered Waerd. It won't be a simple matter overcome this taboo.

Snipehunter 🌩04/25/2019
OK, so I might flub how I describe this a bit, but another aspect of the Waerd is that they see themselves as sort of striving to become the perfect Waerd, but they know they aren't there yet. Their classes are more arrayed around that "idealness" than anything else. The Set are closest to the true Waerd, and are seen as having a stronger connection to the Two-Fold Queen. So the distinctions between the classes do exist internally, with those of higher classes seeing the lower classes as "not there yet" rather than as rigid castes. The higher classes take on greater responsibility in the faith, too, in some sense so they can guide the rest of the Waerd on the path so that they can join them and perhaps even one day attain that perfect, ideal, Waerdness they strive for.
Source: Discord

If you go against taboo, NPCs will shun you. If NPCs won't work with you, you have to rely on players. If NPCs get wind of a rumor that a player is dealing with a shunned person, that player may become shunned as well. There are soft mechanical incentives to keeping the taboos.

Of course, all of this can magnified or diminished by each individual NPCs values, the strength of their relationship to you, and your current reputation. Though we don't have any statement from the devs indicating it directly, I feel safe in speculating that cultural shifts will work similarly to the Research mechanics. If particularly influential players make the necessary effort to manage NPCs carefully through a social change over a broad population, then the devs may tone down the taboo and allow "progress" to be achieved.

Posted By Bombastus at 12:49 PM - Wed Oct 23 2019

If you go against taboo, NPCs will shun you. If NPCs won't work with you, you have to rely on players. If NPCs get wind of a rumor that a player is dealing with a shunned person, that player may become shunned as well. There are soft mechanical incentives to keeping the taboos.

But what does that effectively mean? Who's to say that staying "taboo-compliant" isn't going to be extremely easy?

All of these systems will be based on triggers of some kind; a tithe, a quota to be filled or avoided, or an interaction with an npc of some kind perhaps. Maybe a combination. Once players break this down to its bare-bones and figure out those triggers, they'll game the system.

To assume players will just choose to not find ways around arbitrary culture RP would be naive.

The difference in what you guys are saying has yet to be seen. You both could be correct. Shunning for a behavior could just be a hit to rep with that tribe or they could not talk to you at all. Whatever the negative effect is, the devs will most likely give you a way to fix it. If fixing it is just doing quest or earning favor with the npcs via gifts or quests then most people will take the hit and earn it the rep back. If it's something like you need to stop the behavior altogether then that could have a last affect when dealing with NPCs at least.

I know taboo is a strong word but we need to see the gameplay mechanics before we lean either way.

Now that I think about, since most towns have multiple tribes in them, you could just have a person from another tribe trade with the npcs. So, if your town's waerd is weird to the other waerd, just send your neran merchant over or wear a disguise.

Posted By Vucar at 3:42 PM - Wed Oct 23 2019

But what does that effectively mean? Who's to say that staying "taboo-compliant" isn't going to be extremely easy?

All of these systems will be based on triggers of some kind; a tithe, a quota to be filled or avoided, or an interaction with an npc of some kind perhaps. Maybe a combination. Once players break this down to its bare-bones and figure out those triggers, they'll game the system.

To assume players will just choose to not find ways around arbitrary culture RP would be naive.

Who's to say that staying "taboo-compliant" isn't going to be extremely difficult?

SBS tends to make decisions on how things work based around what would logically be the case in a real society, for the most part.

Logically, by doing things that affect how the culture progresses, you would change that culture over time.

Therefore, they plan to make that possible in game.

It is not logical, though, to assume that attempting to change the culture, in a way that completely contradicts the basic tenants of that culture, will be in any way easy or even doable in a short time frame.

Especially if there are hundreds of players trying to push their own agendas to benefit themselves or their groups.

We know that religion in COE isn't supposed to be a trivial thing. There could very well be real mechanical benefits to keeping the Waerd on the path their belief system has laid out for them. Who knows?

Just have to wait and see.

I do expect that in time we will see some cultural shifts as players affect their tribes, say Neran in Duchy A have a few differences than Neran in Duchy B. However I believe these will take years to come into effect as cultural shifts aren't quick.

With the Waerd however, I would see these cultural shifts creating a new tribe, like the Waerd being created due to their shift from the Erishe.

If a collection of Waerd players and NPC's became more individual over time, less focused on the collective and their mission to uphold the Two Fold Queens will, then the schism would be too great for both factions to hold a friendly relation and be considered the same tribe.

In that instance I would hope for realism in the game that SBS turn the new faction into a new playable tribe on their server.