COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Why CB makes the mayors effectively the most powerful players in the game.
-4

This dynamic sets up a rather interesting situation where the higher up has to for lack of a better term kiss up to the lower power.

King/Queen Must keep the 12 Dukes and Duchesses happy or any one of them can send in their armies and CB you ending your reign. So you would want to pass only completely non controversial ones like murder is illegal.

Dukes/Duchesses They must keep the counts happy, or their reign is over because surely they can find someone willing to take that spot or their own spot and help them get the higher spot.

Counts/Countesses Mayors have the power to take them over, so they will want to not piss them off. Especially as they are closest to the people.

Mayors Mayors can demand a law get overturned and the count will demand that it get over turned and the duke will demand and the king will do it. Basically Mayors are the final stamp of approval.


The Keshi family, is intend on bringing democracy and economic stability to Elyria.

5/24/2019 1:45:53 AM #1
+16

Alternate scenario: mayor is being a pain in the butt, count locks down all land sales around his town, pulls their infrastructure support and guards,and the town slowly dies. Or the count gives his buddy enough land to incorporate into the town to become the new mayor and ousts him that way.


5/24/2019 2:08:36 AM #2
+1

Posted By Kaynadin at 09:45 AM - Fri May 24 2019

Alternate scenario: mayor is being a pain in the butt, count locks down all land sales around his town, pulls their infrastructure support and guards,and the town slowly dies. Or the count gives his buddy enough land to incorporate into the town to become the new mayor and ousts him that way.

Yeah pretty much.

While it is wise to be supportive of your vassals, if one of them becomes a pain in the butt, I am sure there will be plenty of others who'd rally to oust them, or quell the disturbance.

I am sure 1 rowdy Mayor is no match for a dutiful Count who requests assistance from other Mayors, Counts and his and/or other Dukes.


5/24/2019 3:23:33 AM #3
+0

While mayors may have some power. Gotta please the masses after all. If they throw their weight around too much. Well as Kaynadin pointed out. Many ways to deal with them.

While mayors may get on well with other mayors within the same county. Thus have some influence power over their count. How far does their influence really reach? Into the next counties?

Where as counts should be getting on very well with all the other counts around them. Possibly the mayors as well. Just in case their mayors try something.

Basically higher up the food chain, the more connections and power that person should have. Wouldn't take much for those to call in favours and just wipe someone off the board. If they are causing that many problems.

I am curious to know how easy it will be to out vote a mayor. If the mayor has, for example, 30% of the votes. Could a count just bribe a bunch of players/NPCs to all vote for someone different. Which is really the biggest weakest a mayor has.


5/24/2019 4:20:14 AM #4
+4

Your forgetting that Mayors are only safe in their position of power if the majority vote of the towns shareholders support them.

So the premise of the argument that the mayors are at bottom of the food-chain is incorrect. The true bottom are major shareholder of the town. They do not need to please any underlings and have thus full freedom of action. They just don't have enough power to act unilaterally.


Seneschal for the Hrothi County of Iskar

https://discord.gg/gUeFF7h

5/24/2019 4:45:41 AM #5
+5

There is a difference between individual power and collective power. Individually, a mayor is not nearly as powerful as a count. Collectively, all the mayors in a county together will probably be able to effectively oppose a count. The gotcha is that it is difficult for a collective to agree upon a decisive plan of action. The count would have to be really bad for such a thing to happen.

The same thing goes for all relationships between subordinates and lords.

In general, one should not confuse the interests and intentions of a class with the interests and intentions of an individual. That is a common error in historical and political analysis and perhaps the major flaw in Marxist reasoning.


5/24/2019 6:23:05 AM #6
+3

While not being a copy of earth vassalic political systems, the system we will start with in CoE is vassalic.

Which means that the relation between lord and vassal goes both ways and one's power is only as strong as the sum of the powers its vassals add to its own.

A wise lord will understand that it has to cherish and support its vassals,because if fate has it, it will need their help ( which is expected but not granted) to survive. A wise vassal will understand that its relation to its lord imply supporting it, to be ready to commit to fight to its side and to abide to its law, but does never mean you are under its command or bound to execute its orders.

A lord does not issue orders to its vassal, it ask for help or threat to extort things, its up to the lord to choose which it wants to be and up to the vassal to strengthen and nourish the link between it and its lord that both have sworn to have or to bow under the boot of a tyrannical one.

Usually those ruling by strength and fear are the ones not getting support in time of need, and in a system built to require support in time of need , it might not be the wisest choice of path.

But this community is known for its very large number of wise people and some even much wiser, some time much more wiser than the builder of the game according to them.

guess only time will tell, lets the dance spin around wildly!


5/24/2019 6:46:13 AM #7
+0

Posted By Sackeshi at

This dynamic sets up a rather interesting situation where the higher up has to for lack of a better term kiss up to the lower power.

King/Queen Must keep the 12 Dukes and Duchesses happy or any one of them can send in their armies and CB you ending your reign. So you would want to pass only completely non controversial ones like murder is illegal.

Dukes/Duchesses They must keep the counts happy, or their reign is over because surely they can find someone willing to take that spot or their own spot and help them get the higher spot.

Counts/Countesses Mayors have the power to take them over, so they will want to not piss them off. Especially as they are closest to the people.

Mayors Mayors can demand a law get overturned and the count will demand that it get over turned and the duke will demand and the king will do it. Basically Mayors are the final stamp of approval.

The power of influencing the decisions of the monarch by a mayors is divided by over a thousand players / characters. How can they be powerful at all?

You get to vote in real life, but you are only 1 voter among the millions, do you feel powerful?


Never argue with an idiot, cuz he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Vice mayor of Lighthalzen

5/24/2019 7:23:24 AM #8
+1

Mayors are only able to be successful if the count lets them be successful.

5/24/2019 9:30:00 AM #9
+0

Posted By Gunghoe at 09:23 AM - Fri May 24 2019

Mayors are only able to be successful if the count lets them be successful.

Or if the mayor outwits his/her count/ the baron his/her duke. Dance of dynasties ^^


5/24/2019 11:14:32 AM #10
+0

If a mayor starts threatening a count who has been loyally cooperating with their Duke do you think the Duke is going to support the mayor or the Count with his barons in the struggle?

If you were a manager and one of your employees started demanding more hours/pay from your team leader or to try to get his/her place, are you more likely to fire the team leader who is a more integral part of the workplace just doing their job or the employee who is causing tension in the workplace with unrealistic domands, who is easier replaced?

The barons hold the real power in Elyria they are the ones with the professional standing military forces. But they are funded and ergo controlled by the Dukes. And the Dukes aren't going to want arsehole mayor's making unrealistic domands and disrupting the peace.

If I were Duke and a mayor starts gunning for a loyal count's place and disrupting the tax flow needed to support my ducal responsibilities, you can bet your arse I'm sending the local barons to support the count in putting down the over ambitious mayor.


The night is dark and full of terrors

5/24/2019 11:59:11 AM #11
+1

Posted By Khazad at 1:14 PM - Fri May 24 2019

If a mayor starts threatening a count who has been loyally cooperating with their Duke do you think the Duke is going to support the mayor or the Count with his barons in the struggle?

If you were a manager and one of your employees started demanding more hours/pay from your team leader or to try to get his/her place, are you more likely to fire the team leader who is a more integral part of the workplace just doing their job or the employee who is causing tension in the workplace with unrealistic domands, who is easier replaced?

The barons hold the real power in Elyria they are the ones with the professional standing military forces. But they are funded and ergo controlled by the Dukes. And the Dukes aren't going to want arsehole mayor's making unrealistic domands and disrupting the peace.

If I were Duke and a mayor starts gunning for a loyal count's place and disrupting the tax flow needed to support my ducal responsibilities, you can bet your arse I'm sending the local barons to support the count in putting down the over ambitious mayor.

That's all cool and froody and very true. But you work under the assumption that the Duke/Count would realize something is going on before it is too late.

I fully agree that mayors aren't the top of this food chain, don't get me wrong. But CoE might finaly be a game where your wit might get you as far as your muscle if you play your cards right. No matter if you are a pesant or a slef-styled emperor of mankind.


5/24/2019 1:07:11 PM #12
-3

Everybody better start kissing, or the kingdom will fall. If a major wants to survive, he has to kiss up the count. If a count wants to survive, he better kiss the Duke. The duke better kiss the king. In the end the king better kiss the population, or they will refuse to work for them.

The King better has a large army if he wants to receive kisses. And guess who's the army made off?

5/24/2019 7:27:12 PM #13
+0

Posted By Poldano at 12:45 AM - Fri May 24 2019

In general, one should not confuse the interests and intentions of a class with the interests and intentions of an individual. That is a common error in historical and political analysis and perhaps the major flaw in Marxist reasoning.

I assume your referring to the concept of class-struggle. This is not a flaw as Marx clearly describes a real phenomenon, an entire class will generally take a united actions with it is threatened by another class.

I suspect your working with an exaggerated description of Marx which denies existence of intra-class conflicts. Marx dose not in fact deny that but simply concludes that such conflicts don't alter the class-structure of society and are thus of less historical significance because it defines historical significance exactly in terms of what alters class-structure in society.


Seneschal for the Hrothi County of Iskar

https://discord.gg/gUeFF7h

5/25/2019 3:04:03 AM #14
+0

@Lodrig,

I regret using an off-topic generalization to make a point about the original post in this thread. Please PM me if you want further explanation. Thx.


5/25/2019 5:28:45 PM #15
+0

That's all cool and froody and very true. But you work under the assumption that the Duke/Count would realize something is going on before it is too late.

But CoE might finaly be a game where your wit might get you as far as your muscle if you play your cards right. No matter if you are a pesant or a slef-styled emperor of mankind.

I feel like "too late" is not going to be something that occurs very often. Unless this betrayal is during a big war, or something that is distracting the duke, it isn't like the duke can't grant troops to retroactively reclaim the land. To the old duke, to his new player character, to a loyal retainer he likes better than you, etc. I am not saying it will not work in some domains, but you really need to either have the duke in your pocket, the other counts in your pocket (which probably amounts to the same), or your count needs to be disliked enough for the duke to not to care.


Evil? More like Chaotic Neutral...ish

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