COMMUNITY - FORUMS - SOULBORN ENGINE
Information in COE
+0

I know that Caspian said (a while back) that the information system in COE would be favored against metagaming information, but was there any talk about the mechanics of that?

Ex. Military operations. Would there be any benefit to having scouts and watchtower or would there be no difference than shouting in discord that you're under attack.

Similarly, is there any system to facilitate or grant those perks to encoded information? Let's say your group has a cipher and encodes all their messages. (Just for the immersion.) Would there be any way for the engine to recognize and dole out rewards of passing Intel in-game to those persons?

4/7/2018 2:31:41 PM #1
+3

Given the fact not everyone will be on discord, setting up everything in game would be the way to go about it. Encoding messages would be the same, most may try to do it through discord. If that's how everyone will deal with it is something else.

If I go with my idea as a scout, I be just telling people in game. Not going to keep up discord 24/7. Just seems pointless, much like it's doubtful I be on the forums much after launch either. Only time I would be tempted to go on discord, if there was an army rolling through. Most cases, rather stay away from discord.


4/7/2018 3:00:28 PM #2
+6

The key takeaway from the current info we have is that there are things your character and surrounding NPC's do not know unless it is revealed by ingame cues and information. Your 20,000 man army, comprised mostly of NPC's, simply isn't going to hear you on discord. they MUST receive orders, perceive enemy movement, get resupplied, and be told of new objectives, all by ingame action. While discord will be good for keeping up with your guildies/families/friends in real time, you CANNOT avoid using ingame communication functions to convey important info.


"It's not the scales, the wings, the teeth, or even the breath that set a dragon at the pinnacle of creation. It's not the strength or senses, nor the size of his hoard. It's something that a dragon knows that only comes with age and experience. It's a skill mortals never truly master."

"A dragon...knows how to wait."

4/7/2018 3:18:10 PM #3
+2

Posted By Daynen at 01:00 AM - Sun Apr 08 2018

The key takeaway from the current info we have is that there are things your character and surrounding NPC's do not know unless it is revealed by ingame cues and information. Your 20,000 man army, comprised mostly of NPC's, simply isn't going to hear you on discord. they MUST receive orders, perceive enemy movement, get resupplied, and be told of new objectives, all by ingame action. While discord will be good for keeping up with your guildies/families/friends in real time, you CANNOT avoid using ingame communication functions to convey important info.

This way of putting it is actually really helpful. I've been considering and worrying about the impact of discord for a while, but that's forgetting about the great deal of NPCs gluing everything together that you still need to deal with.


4/7/2018 5:07:33 PM #4
-1

Posted By Daynen at 5:00 PM - Sat Apr 07 2018

The key takeaway from the current info we have is that there are things your character and surrounding NPC's do not know unless it is revealed by ingame cues and information. Your 20,000 man army, comprised mostly of NPC's, simply isn't going to hear you on discord. they MUST receive orders, perceive enemy movement, get resupplied, and be told of new objectives, all by ingame action. While discord will be good for keeping up with your guildies/families/friends in real time, you CANNOT avoid using ingame communication functions to convey important info.

So if a commander is on discord he could give those orders.. Discord allows you to contact people on there phones too, so unless i'm missing something not having something like discord will be a major disadvantigue.. True you'd need some organisation to place players in positions where they can make the most out of the information, but if your running something of a large scale wouldn't you want to do that in the first place?


4/9/2018 6:31:24 AM #5
+2

Posted By Unavailable at 10:07 AM - Sat Apr 07 2018

Posted By Daynen at 5:00 PM - Sat Apr 07 2018

The key takeaway from the current info we have is that there are things your character and surrounding NPC's do not know unless it is revealed by ingame cues and information. Your 20,000 man army, comprised mostly of NPC's, simply isn't going to hear you on discord. they MUST receive orders, perceive enemy movement, get resupplied, and be told of new objectives, all by ingame action. While discord will be good for keeping up with your guildies/families/friends in real time, you CANNOT avoid using ingame communication functions to convey important info.

So if a commander is on discord he could give those orders.. Discord allows you to contact people on there phones too, so unless i'm missing something not having something like discord will be a major disadvantigue.. True you'd need some organisation to place players in positions where they can make the most out of the information, but if your running something of a large scale wouldn't you want to do that in the first place?

@Unavailable,

It seems you are missing the point. Orders on Discord will only be sure to reach those on Discord. If a player is offline, he may receive it on Discord, but his OPC in the game will not receive it. No orders given on Discord will reach NPCs unless there is a human on Discord to relay them.

Whether any of this matters depends on the eventual implementation of large-scale combat. For typical MMORPG small-group battles, Discord is a fine tool. For CoE large scale battles and campaigns, it may be useful for some things but not for others. I think it will be useful for planning and coordination before battles and campaigns, but less useful within battles and campaigns. For small-unit commanders in charge of NPC soldiers, it may be entirely useless in battle except to inform superiors of something they do not seem to know about.


4/9/2018 6:44:22 AM #6
+1

@Spinam,

Consider yourself a duke in charge of a large army consisting of many NPCs and a few PCs. At any time, many of the PCs may be offline. Moreover, if they are online, they may be doing more interesting stuff than manning a watchtower or guardpost. Considered in that light, the warning you as a duke need to get will likely need to come from an NPC or OPC, and hence must come through in-game channels rather than through Discord.

After considering what I have said, you will probably be able to answer your own question.

If SBS does not produce a messaging system for the nobility that's at least as 24/7 in coverage as Discord, they are not doing the right job on it. The nobility must respond to military threats even while offline, and without the need to go online. Offline scripts may not be as effective as personal online control, but they need to be potentially as effective as the scripts of a completely offline or NPC enemy. I say "potentially" because it's perfectly possible for a player creating a script to do worse than the default that CoE will probably provide.

Regarding cipher capability, I would not personally waste my time on it just for immersion, as either a player or as SBS. By way of analogy, if sex can be abstracted, message security certainly can. I would only spend time on it if the extra efforts are worth something in terms of gameplay, which would mean that information security and espionage are parts of the game that can make a difference to what happens.


4/9/2018 6:52:15 AM #7
+1

Posted By Spinam at

I know that Caspian said (a while back) that the information system in COE would be favored against metagaming information, but was there any talk about the mechanics of that?

Ex. Military operations. Would there be any benefit to having scouts and watchtower or would there be no difference than shouting in discord that you're under attack.

Similarly, is there any system to facilitate or grant those perks to encoded information? Let's say your group has a cipher and encodes all their messages. (Just for the immersion.) Would there be any way for the engine to recognize and dole out rewards of passing Intel in-game to those persons?

This being a more immersive game it will be important to have scouts for the enemy troops camping.

You can't see what hasn't been seen.

-

There is a few things with the communication system with rumor tokens, and other tokens that collaborate what has been done and what has been said. In order to have a reason for both deviant and detective skills.

The in game mechanics there are others I forgot about that will be important to consider.

Posted By Daynen at 11:00 AM - Sat Apr 07 2018

The key takeaway from the current info we have is that there are things your character and surrounding NPC's do not know unless it is revealed by ingame cues and information. Your 20,000 man army, comprised mostly of NPC's, simply isn't going to hear you on discord. they MUST receive orders, perceive enemy movement, get resupplied, and be told of new objectives, all by ingame action. While discord will be good for keeping up with your guildies/families/friends in real time, you CANNOT avoid using ingame communication functions to convey important info.

20k men is the absolute max that vornair and Devillion empire can support man. We will be lucky to see 2000 men armies.

5/7/2018 4:47:08 PM #8
+0

What must be remembered is players make a small minority of all the characters in the game.

Additionally, players aren't going to be superheroes compared to NPCs like they are in other games.

That means that, sure, you may be able to coordinate with even a large amount of players on discord...but can a discord full of 50 players do something against a Duke and their army of thousands of NPCs and players? Possibly better equipped and better trained?

NPCs won't be on discord and they are the majority...


5/7/2018 6:15:45 PM #9
+1

Posted By Spinam at

Ex. Military operations. Would there be any benefit to having scouts and watchtower or would there be no difference than shouting in discord that you're under attack.

I'd say yes, because the majority of settlement population will be NPC which you will only be able to communicate through the game engine either through language/gesture (emotes)/player actions/in-game mechanics.

The way I see it is PCs will be the shepherds of the NPCs. The moments or minutes you get in discord to announce to your fellow shepherds that your settlement is under attack gives you moments/minutes depending on your defenses to plan and react without having the communication delay.

The metaphor I see is, discord is the bridge of the Enterprise and when you make your decision you send your orders to the rest of the ship crew (NPCs and subordinates) through the coms (game engine). Discord I think won't have much affect other than deliberating on actions. Especially with the information system the way it is with tokens. Outside communication doesn't matter to the game engine, there needs to basically be a paper trail to create story from.

Think of it like a real-time strategy game.


Kypiq proprietor - Weaver/Tailor/Designer - Broad Leaf Forest

7/7/2018 3:52:49 AM #10
+0

Posted By Spinam at .

I'd say yes, because the majority of settlement population will be NPC which you will only be able to communicate through the game engine either through language/gesture (emotes)/player actions/in-game mechanics.

The way I see it is PCs will be the shepherds of the NPCs. The moments or minutes you get in discord to announce to your fellow shepherds that your settlement is under attack gives you moments/minutes depending on your defenses to plan and react without having the communication delay.

The metaphor I see is, discord is the bridge of the Enterprise and when you make your decision you send your orders to the rest of the ship crew (NPCs and subordinates) through the coms (game engine). Discord I think won't have much affect other than deliberating on actions. Especially with the information system the way it is with tokens. Outside communication doesn't matter to the game engine, there needs to basically be a paper trail to create story from.

Think of it like a real-time strategy game.

I wouldn't Want to use discord too much as it is far easier for spies to pass what you are doing inside discord that in the game. It seems that the developers will make it so that in game distance influences communication in such away that a traitor would have to physically deliver your orders to the enemy for them to know your plans and who you have contacted. Since a major raid party has to carry more supplies than a scout it is safe to assume that they are going to be slower giving you time to gather your in game awake players and opcs and organize your defenses. If they can't see you giving out orders then they will be unable to predict what surprises and plans you come up with in the spur of the moment to spring on them.


Being normal is vastly overrated!

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