I like it that you guys want to involve the currently solo players thumbs up!
I like it that you guys want to involve the currently solo players thumbs up!
Tryggr duchy myrkland
EDITED 6th Nov 17.32 UTC
This post is edited here to keep the analysis on the beginning of the thread so it's easier to find. Didn't want to create a new thread since kingdoms will have their own analysises. Hopefully this analysis won't be buried here... Inform other nomads to come here for a read and have a talk why they vote map X.
Alright, maps for round 2 have been released! Looks amazing with all those geological features and duchy lines, don't they? Eager to pick your starting location? Me too! However, we should still try to hold our horses a while. The purpose of round 2 is to select the final map for the server. It's not for picking your starting location. Let's try to keep our focus on choosing a map which most of us can be happy for the rest of the game, shall we?
We are not allowed to join kingdom's conversations about which map to vote. So this thread is for us nomads to talk about which map we could vote for. Maybe we can find some sort of agreement what to vote? Most likely not, but we can always try. :)
Interaction. This is a multiplayer game after all. Interaction can be done in many levels. Starting from kingdom level and all the way to interacting single player’s surroundings. At this stage we should be mostly interested in large scale interactions and general flows which include large scale wars, general trading routes and tribal relations for example. Let’s try to focus on these and see how maps looks like from that perspective.
Here is a short recap for those who don't know what happened in round 1. 5 kingdoms entered negotations to talk which maps are most suitable for EU. After a while, Arkadia bailed out of the room (some drama included) and decided to vote how they see fit. 4 kingdoms stayed in negotations and decided to vote B. Before this was announced Arkadia had already voted C. Voting went on and during the last hour, Arkadia voted two uncontested maps to round 2, Q and P. Therefore we got B, L, C, Q and P as our options for round 2.
Even if we can now see largest lakes and rivers etc, we are still choosing general guidelines how our server will start the game. It does matter which map we choose, each map will set the early steps of development differently. So try to keep your personal goals on the background for a while if possible.
How kingdoms are positioned? This was already visible in round 1 maps and it’s still important factor. Are they in a stack where everyone have 1-2 neighbours or are they position so that each kingdom have 2-3 neighbours. More neighbours = more interaction at kingdom level.
Biome/tribe territory sizes. Bigger means more population and resources from that biome. This was also visible in round 1 and it’s still important as well.
There is a lot of features in COE that don’t exists in other games, like weather and seasons. In higher latitudes it gets cold during the winter and in the south increasing heat will do its thing during summer.
Our dudes will stay ingame while we are logged off. The world in COE is big compared to other games and there is no quick travel! How much of your game time you are willing to spend in travelling from place A to B? For longer travels you most likely don’t even have maps where you are going to.
At first we have certain technologies and we’ll research new technologies as our world develops which make our ingame lives easier or at least different. Certain tribes are more tech orientated than others. Maybe having a larger Kypiq biome is a good thing?
How about resources? Afaik, in COE you can expect to find resources where you could find them in real world. You don’t run around in COE and swing your pickaxe to gather few pieces of iron from a node in middle grasslands for example.
Kingdom pick order makes a big difference especially when there is one double kingdom. In all maps a double kingdom can isolate a single kingdom so the same problem/risk is valid for all maps.
It's assumed that the pick order is the following: Demalion picks double kingdom, Arkadia, Al Khezam, Tryggr or Nirath last. So far the favoured kingdoms are these: Demalion K1 + K2, Arkadia K6, Al Khezam K5, Tryggr K3/4 and Nirath K3/4, but this is not set in stone.
This map was agreed as the best compromise for 4 kingdoms in round 1 because it seems to be most balanced.
Has a chokepoint biome in the middle so there is huge bays in both coasts - can be a pro or a con. Chokepoint is the biggest question mark on this map, but most likely it’ll increase sea travel. All biomes are average sized with only one landlocked biome in K4. Expect to have freezing temperatures in all K1 and K2 as well as northern parts of K3’s broad and mixed leaf forests.
Kingdoms are fairly balanced in size so population and resources are probably quite balanced. K3 being top down somewhat isolates north from south. Of course we can sail, but it’s still about 20km between K2 and K5 which can be several hours of travelling. Land route might be a little longer, but it’s far easier to rest in cities and towns than at sea especially if at war. Each kingdom have decent amount of neighbours. If Demalion picks K1 and K2, they’ll have only one neighbour, but overall cold winter and snow will slow down north every winter.
Overall pretty decent map which has once been selected as a compromise by 4 kingdoms. My opinion is that the chokepoint shape is the biggest question mark in this map. The location of semiarid desert might block a fair amount of interaction thanks to biome’s characteristics and it also seems quite rugged.
This map was 2nd most voted in round 1, but no bigger community/kingdom have come to public and said that they voted it to round 2.
There is no chokepoint biome otherwise biome positioning is close to what it is in B. Overall shape is a bit boring blob, but the big bay on the west coast makes this map a bit more interesting. Slightly shorter north to south than map B making L a bit more compact. Northern biomes are pretty much the same size as in B. K3’s biomes are bigger and K6’s biomes are smaller. This map has the only Bog biome in our pool of maps.
K3, K4 and K5 seems to have larger territories compared to northern and southern kingdoms. I think this compansates the fact that K1+2 (Demalion?) and K6 have fewer neighbours. And middle kingdoms have long borders which each other compared to map B. This encourages interaction between kingdoms. Most likely there would be more land trade in map L than in map B. The location of semiarid desert is also not as blocking as in map B.
Nice map in my opinion. There isn’t much differences kingdom locations compared to map B. Biomes are a bit different than in B, but I think map L is more balanced than map B. Doesn’t really have any bigger question marks. Shape is a bit boring, but it’s still not a blob like P.
This map was Arkadia's #1 map in round 1.
Has a chokepoint biome with bays on both sides of the coast. Chokepoint biome is also a “hostile” environment, semiarid desert. Has several smaller open-like bays around its coast. One landlocked biome in K5. Bigger variation in biome sizes. Fewer Nerans which may affect the whole server. North-south landtrade might be more difficult due to semi-arid desert in the middle. Waerds controlling the landtrade between north-south may lead to interesting results.
Stackmap where all kingdoms are stacked on top of each other. Kingdoms are fairly even sized (although double kingdom will be about twice the size as others), but since everyone have only 1-2 neighbours there may not be as much interaction than in other maps. I think this map favors north and south. If Demalion picks K1 and K2, it’ll have twice as much territory than K3 which is its only neighbour. K3 and K4 which are in the middle are also the smallest, fair? K4 is also arcing over K5.
I think this isn’t as fair to all kingdoms as map B and L. Less neighbours also reduces the amount of interaction between kingdoms. Especially when some kingdoms have only one neighbour.
This map was voted to round 2 mostly because Arkadia voted it during the last hour.
Stackmap where all kingdoms are stacked on top of each other. Has a chokepoint biome with bays on both sides of the coast. Northern biomes are much larger compared to southern biomes. Has two larger bays in both coasts in the middle. Zero landlocked biomes.
If Demalion picks K1 and K2 they’ll be BIG. K4 is controlling the middle latitudes for a change.
I think this map is even worse than C which makes this worst of all five. I tried to find positives out of this map, but couldn’t...
This map was voted to round 2 mostly because Arkadia voted it during the last hour.
This is the only map which hasn’t any large bays therefore making the map a blob-shape. 5 landlocked biomes. Biomes are fairly evenly sized, although both K2 biomes are noticeably larger. Shape of the continent favors land trade.
All kingdoms are stacked on top of each other and each one is quite flat (except K1+K2). Double kingdom can become huge straight in the beginning. Diplomacy-wise most likely the most demanding one. Strategically kingdoms are forced to defend only their most valuable locations, no point trying to defend whole border. Easy to break kingdoms in half. This map type could create the most chaos, but could also be very effective if everyone works together since distances between kingdoms and different biomes are a lot shorter than in other maps.
Actually the blob shape with its biomes aren’t that bad, but kingdom borders are quite horrible… However, kingdom borders will change shape and coast line stays the same. Do we want to burn out our kings/dukes/etc with a map which is just asking for “border reordering”? Since the land area is the smallest there is most likely more land to be explored on the other side of the sea than in other maps.
There they are, 5 maps to choose from. Vote wisely, we'll be stuck with the map we vote for. It's better to unite and vote for something that is fair for most of us. However, there is as many point of views as there are players, what is yours?
Backer #12. Friend code: 9B7EDE.
Kypiq mayor of Willowhaven - Crossstone - Whiteraven Rock - Tryggr
Join Whiteraven Rock Discord (https://discord.gg/ppTBAqs)
I'm in too. As soon as the new maps come out we can start having a more informed discussion. Thank you Sanguinesh for starting this thread and putting this idea out there.
Make decisions based on what you want, not what you want to avoid.
It is difficult to unify all players without a kingdom, many of them will not following this Event . For those that wish to participate in the talks about the Round 2, are very welcome to join Arkadian Discord as Visitors Arkadia pushed successfully 3 out of 5 maps in round 2 . I personally like 4 out of the 5 top 5 maps selected for Selene ( B - C - P - Q ) . L map is not good for me. Please feel free to join Arkadia Discord .
@Augustus_Aquila, wouldn't you wait to see the more details before saying Arkadia as a whole doesn't like map L? Seems a bit short sighted. For all you know anything could change.
Posted By Gunnlang at 12:27 PM - Sat Nov 03 2018
@Augustus_Aquila, wouldn't you wait to see the more details before saying Arkadia as a whole doesn't like map L? Seems a bit short sighted. For all you know anything could change.
Of all blobs, we like the colored blob in map L less. That doesn't mean we aren't capable to adapt and make the best out of a situation. K6 is not set in stone. There are other spots we don't mind to take as compromise.
Anyway, nomads are always welcome in my county, as long as they are nomads. As soon as they want to settle, Arkadian citizenship is required. And I hope the nomads don't look like heavily armed soldiers, or they have to surrender their weapons at the Duane post or the local sheriff.
And no littering or begging!
That was only my personal point of view …… Obviously.
Posted By Sanguinesh Eviscerator at
(...)they had to take the best interests of their own kingdoms and find compromise with the other kingdoms(...)
I'm curious, are you/the negotiators/representatives of the kingdoms allowed to detail what they considered the 'best interest' and, even more specifically, how the conclusion was drawn? I wonder since I think the reasoning might influence people regardless of not having aligned to a kingdom yet and I fear that people have a vastly different idea of how (certain features in) CoE is going to play out. As an example, I've heard both reason a choke point could result in an offensive map and a defensive map and there seems to be even more diversity on how people imagine trade to work in the end (mainly by ship or by wagons)...
Sage willing to help with Purity (if you spot me on Discord and have some Plague on your account that could be nullified with a trade, drop me a message on Discord)
Ok, so I can only speak for myself here as one of the negotiators. I'm not going to be speaking why others considered B a good map or didn't or which kingdom is going to choose what.
For Map B:
-The tribal and biome distribution is relatively even. No tribe appears severely disadvantaged by the size and shape of their biomes. Especially the three Faedin tribes have biomes of a good size (personal opinion).
-All but one biome have coastal access, that biome being one where the main tribe has three other biomes with coastal access.
-The bottleneck in K3 is overall very wide and not in a hostile biome, nor at the foot of a hostile biome.
-No kingdom (on the map) is completely isolated but borders at least two others, which allows for more nuanced geopolitics and general satisfaction and potential migration.
-No hostile biome in the center of the map or at the foot of the bottleneck, so as to potentially allow for better land route trading. Hostile biome relegated to the side but still sufficiently central to allow interaction and effect.
-No biome distribution where a hostile biome splits a kingdom in two.
-Possibility of sea route trading north to south on both sides of the map not dominated by a single entity.
-Coast line that looks sufficiently dynamic with a few large bays and peninsulas, not to mention inlets. (example: Bay in K2)
-Kingdom size generally acceptable so as not to result in the perception of a disadvantage for any one party.
-Kingdom borders more dynamic, not a stack, where one kingdom is stacked on another, but a jigsaw or wrap. Which again, allows for more opportunities in regard to geopolitics as well as trading, not to mention warfare.
Posted By Scylurus at 4:45 PM - Sat Nov 03 2018
Ok, so I can only speak for myself here as one of the negotiators. I'm not going to be speaking why others considered B a good map or didn't or which kingdom is going to choose what.
For Map B:
-The tribal and biome distribution is relatively even. No tribe appears severely disadvantaged by the size and shape of their biomes. Especially the three Faedin tribes have biomes of a good size (personal opinion).
-All but one biome have coastal access, that biome being one where the main tribe has three other biomes with coastal access.
-The bottleneck in K3 is overall very wide and not in a hostile biome, nor at the foot of a hostile biome.
-No kingdom (on the map) is completely isolated but borders at least two others, which allows for more nuanced geopolitics and general satisfaction and potential migration.
-No hostile biome in the center of the map or at the foot of the bottleneck, so as to potentially allow for better land route trading. Hostile biome relegated to the side but still sufficiently central to allow interaction and effect.
-No biome distribution where a hostile biome splits a kingdom in two.
-Possibility of sea route trading north to south on both sides of the map not dominated by a single entity.
-Coast line that looks sufficiently dynamic with a few large bays and peninsulas, not to mention inlets. (example: Bay in K2)
-Kingdom size generally acceptable so as not to result in the perception of a disadvantage for any one party.
-Kingdom borders more dynamic, not a stack, where one kingdom is stacked on another, but a jigsaw or wrap. Which again, allows for more opportunities in regard to geopolitics as well as trading, not to mention warfare.
I agree with you B is a good Map for every kingdom. It is my idea ...
This is indeed a good way to get all the players on board, been wonderin why many have not voted, because of lost interest to the game and lack of integration to the big communities and etc. I am worried for the guys who don't know where to feel home.
I think this is a nice way to welcome yall to the Map Voting. Even though it might be hard to find a common solution I wish you guys all the best.
For a nice peaceful nomadic Way I'd propose a Map which is proportionate and doesn't give unnecessary advantages over others, restricting kingdoms from fearlessly invading and conlict. Map B looks like a Map where we know where the PvPers will gather, allows you then to proceed your Adventure wihout meeting them, gives you a fair chance of none-conflict travel from North to South, when looking from the perspective of a Nomadic Neran.
So to leave you guys at that, perhaps you'd find interest into voting for a peaceful map and one which benefits all.
Good luck to your nomadic way.
One good thing kingdoms and communities could to help unafiliated people to feel more included and part of things would be to stop threatening them and anyone that does not pledge.
Until the end of Domain and settlement selection we are all nomads with zero guaranty to be anywhere we might think we want to be.
Lets start to be understanding and welcoming accepting the fact that despite our dreams of grandeur we have little control over things and lets stop to be morons.
People are welcomed in my domain in game and i wont require anything out of game of them nor prior to domain selection neither after we enter the game. There will be laws, respect them and you'll be just like any other character free to go rule your life as you see fit.
Never talked to me before and select a settlement in my county, welcome, i hope i'll be a count to your liking and lets try to do great things for the characters of the county, final, no discord obligations, no out of game rules, it is a game.
If we all stop being Aholes i am sure unafiliated people will feel much better taking part in the server's life.
The OP is a nice person doing this all under the Al-Khezam banner. Their Kingdom needs more love :)
Don'twant to be harsh or anything, but those who are already in kingdoms, is it wrong to politely ask you to stay away from this discussion? You already have channels where you can have your map talk, which we have access. This could be our place to chat. There is also a chance you are trying to get us nomads vote something your kingdom wants to vote.
Especially don't come here to recruit anyone, please. There is other forums/threads for that.
Thank you!
Backer #12. Friend code: 9B7EDE.
Kypiq mayor of Willowhaven - Crossstone - Whiteraven Rock - Tryggr
Join Whiteraven Rock Discord (https://discord.gg/ppTBAqs)
Posted By Nahkahiiri at 9:33 PM - Sat Nov 03 2018
Don'twant to be harsh or anything, but those who are already in kingdoms, is it wrong to politely ask you to stay away from this discussion? You already have channels where you can have your map talk, which we have access. This could be our place to chat. There is also a chance you are trying to get us nomads vote something your kingdom wants to vote.
Especially don't come here to recruit anyone, please. There is other forums/threads for that.
Thank you!
Just remember that this topis is started by someone in a Kingdom. Don't fall for it!
