I like your idea. That way the players are empowered and can serve justice themselves. I totally agree that shaming doesn't work on a level that keeps out the hard core trolls.
"Whats normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”
"Whats normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”
I like your idea. That way the players are empowered and can serve justice themselves. I totally agree that shaming doesn't work on a level that keeps out the hard core trolls.
I'm for productive punishment, being forced to work for the Kingdom you wronged increases your skills while punishing and restricting your general freedom. I'm not really interested in Jail, simply because it seems a little dull. It's unlikely people will care about a troublemaker once they've been thrown into a black pit and locked away. But if they're forced to cut lumber, mine for ore or even hunt dangerous animals for the Kingdoms betterment that's good for everyone.
You know jail time would do nothing. Having an character I play to do some form of banditry on. All I would do it have 2-3 characters running at any given time. One gets locked up? Who cares, jump onto alt.
Besides SBS is never going to bring in something where people are stuck in a cage and can't move for some random amount of time. So much fun not able to play a game for a few days/weeks on end.
This game isn't setup to be some safe haven and really would you truly want it to be? Honestly as someone that plans to be a noble. I'm much more concered of a kingdom war starting. Over some group of bandits that honestly should never have enough power to cause any real problems.
People seem to be really making trolls a bigger problem than they will be. You keep being scared of some boogie monster if you want. All the while there could be citizen working against you in more secret ways.
the prison mechanic could be used by Griefers to Grief
planting false evidence
somebody steals your identity and commits a lot of crimes you're screwed
another reason why I wish there was voice chat in the game so I can explain myself cuz I'm very bad at writing
My experience with jail in mmos is archeage..If you had a bounty and got caught, you went to jail..The higher the bounty the longer the sentence..But criminals really didn't care about going to jail..People would even try to break each other's record for jail time..I don't think anything will really stop trolls without them complaining that the punishment is too harsh..
If we do have a prison, I think NPCs should be aware who went jail and be on alert when a known convict is seen in the area. I don't think should magically know but if we provide information about current arrest they should remember who it was for some time. Maybe something like guards follow you or merchant charge more.. If you want to add fun to it have NPCs ask them to do something illegal since they have the rep.
@Radkid, you can always use a Discord or something like that to get your voice heard
Posted By Gunnlang at 09:44 AM - Mon Feb 12 2018
You know jail time would do nothing. Having an character I play to do some form of banditry on. All I would do it have 2-3 characters running at any given time. One gets locked up? Who cares, jump onto alt.
Besides SBS is never going to bring in something where people are stuck in a cage and can't move for some random amount of time. So much fun not able to play a game for a few days/weeks on end.
This game isn't setup to be some safe haven and really would you truly want it to be? Honestly as someone that plans to be a noble. I'm much more concered of a kingdom war starting. Over some group of bandits that honestly should never have enough power to cause any real problems.
People seem to be really making trolls a bigger problem than they will be. You keep being scared of some boogie monster if you want. All the while there could be citizen working against you in more secret ways.
anyone with real experience with video games will tell you the same thing as to what I said, you can't guilt or shame trolls, I'm sorry but you can't, but you can kill them or take away their game time if allowed.....This I promise you, everyone that reads this will be on board on what I am saying after 30 people run amuck of their villages screaming out "show me da wei" "spit on him" "Uganda brothers" and endless screaming, as they kill people and cause havoc, it's not a matter of if but when this will happen lol.
"Whats normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”
Besides SBS is never going to bring in something where people are stuck in a cage and can't move for some random amount of time. So much fun not able to play a game for a few days/weeks on end
I never quite liked this argument "People should not be put in a cell because it's not fun for them"
Well...is it fun for a farmer or a merchant to spend days doing something just to be ruined by another player?
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind if players want to delve into banditry, but since it's something generally not accepted, they need to know and face the consequences if the are caught.
Bandits are successfully raiding caravans, before they got caught they moved to another location - great! they played well, avoided detection, local forces didn't do much to stop them, I don't see a problem.
But when you raid a farm, get caught, few days are deducted from your life and in few hours you grab a sword and repeat - that's something not fun for others. And the penalty for them would be paying for new life in what, 3-5 months instead of 9-12? that never stops such people, they will gladly pay 20$ a month if that's all they need to continue playing how they like, and they will most likely got bored of it in 2 months and bail CoE just leaving chaos behind.
I also do not like the idea of being locked in a cell staring at wall, but I do like the idea if a person can be put to a manual labor if he commited enough serious crimes, if you can throw people in mines by making up your own laws what can and cannot be done, I can see how governing people can become griefers...but then again...prisoner unrest and prison break makes for a good storytelling right?
Unless they find a way to add value (fun) to such a mechanic SBS has said it won’t be in.
Trolls won’t be a large problem post launch. Once they are caught and lose that spark and realize how much cash it will cost to be a troll I doubt we will see large scale ffa murders and such. There may still be the occasional one but nothing too terrible.
I agree that taking some of their spirit away isn't enough of a risk factor. And as someone mentioned above, if there was jail time, they'd probably just play an alt while they wait out the sentence. But, there does need to be some bigger risk involved or they will run rampant.
How about, in addition to the spirit loss, you lose skills or skill levels. I mean if you got caught, you clearly aren't as skilled as you thought you were! Then if they didn't select their criminal activity carefully, they could slide backward in their skill advancement.
I'm not sure this would even be much of a deterrent for the true griefer/troll (I'm not sure anything would be) but it's something.
Posted By Abigor at 07:18 AM - Mon Feb 12 2018
Well...is it fun for a farmer or a merchant to spend days doing something just to be ruined by another player?
Go read up on the game again. SBS has been very clear that it will take significantly more time to "ruin" a player built structure than it took to make it for this precise reason.
Posted By Abigor at 07:18 AM - Mon Feb 12 2018
But when you raid a farm, get caught, few days are deducted from your life and in few hours you grab a sword and repeat - that's something not fun for others. And the penalty for them would be paying for new life in what, 3-5 months instead of 9-12? that never stops such people
You have no idea what kind of penalty of spirit loss any crime will carry, or how hard it will be to restore lost gear to raid effectively again, so stop throwing out numbers with your pretend insight.
TL:DR because it got waaay longer than I intended. People are not comprehending the system fully and there is already substantial penalties for trolling and low-skill deviants.
First, as someone else previously stated in the thread. Any punishment you levy against deviants is one that regular players will have to suffer as well by nature of the games mechanics. I mean... Oh no, innocent farmer had his crops that he has been working on for 3 days ruined. As opposed to, deviant used a disguise to impersonate said farmer and killed/stole from 5 people. The farmer is then jailed for 30 days... ouch.
Though to my own point, I think people are underestimating the amount of spirit loss trolls and unskilled deviants will suffer. Deviants will lose spirit for each crime they are found guilty of. They will also suffer a multiplier for the spirit loss based on their infamy.
For example, if they create a fake identity and use it to commit multiple crimes and that identity is found to have committed those crimes. This identity is then quite infamous. Then the criminal is found to be the owner of this identity by some means. The criminal would then be punished for all the crimes of that identity along with a multiplier based on the infamy level. This could easily amount to a 4x or even 8x multiplier and will be a 2x multiplier at the least for any identity that commits multiple crimes.
Speculation: So we aren't talking about a 3-5 month play time for trolls/low-skill deviants. We are talking more like a few weeks. The really good deviants might never get caught though, regardless of what the punishment may be.
In-depth speculation:
If players are able to set the spirit loss for crimes within a limit then let's say that the punishment for murder is 7days of spirit loss. We all know that if it's possible, players will set it even higher than that. So, let's say a troll kills 10 people. That's 7 weeks of playtime loss. Now, we apply the fame multiplier. Someone at the mayor level receives a 2x multiplier, while someone at the baron and count level receive a 4x and 8x multiplier respectively. If you kill 10 people then you are at least as well known as the local mayor, no? Maybe even as well known as the local baron. Let's just go with mayor and say it's the 2x multiplier. Now it's 14 weeks of playtime loss. So 3 and 1/2 months for the simple 10 murder troll. Even without the mayor multiplier, it's still almost 2 months for 10 murders.
Let's take it to the more... well... common misconception of what a troll could do. Troll kills 30 people. He ran into a town of farmers and managed to slaughter them all... somehow -_- .... He's definitely as well known as the local baron at this point, so we'll go with the 4x multiplier. 30murders x 7day penalty = 2,100 days = 30 weeks = 7.5 months x 4xfame multiplier = 30 months.... = 2.5 years = permadeath.
Even if we take it down to what I believe was the original idea proposed by SBS which was ?2days? spirit loss, and say they are only as famous as the local mayor. Then it would still be 4 months for 30 murders. Trolls will quickly need to buy more sparks. Shame on any town that gets taken out by a single troll though. You kind of deserve it IMO -_-
If your town gets taken down by 4-5 players? Whose to say it was trolls and not bandits from a neighboring county/duchy/kingdom trying to sabotage the economy?
Posted By RobertOrr at 02:02 AM - Tue Feb 13 2018
anyone with real experience with video games will tell you the same thing as to what I said, you can't guilt or shame trolls, I'm sorry but you can't, but you can kill them or take away their game time if allowed.....This I promise you, everyone that reads this will be on board on what I am saying after 30 people run amuck of their villages screaming out "show me da wei" "spit on him" "Uganda brothers" and endless screaming, as they kill people and cause havoc, it's not a matter of if but when this will happen lol.
But seeing as everyone will need to make their gear and then upkeep it. Really a group that big shouldn't be able to get that setup in the first place and if they do, shouldn't be that hard to find the town they are supplying themselves out of. The main reason I'm not worried about them.
Any bandit group that gets that big and does something that stupid, like raiding a town, is doomed anyway. Once you get noticed by the duchy army, you are flat out up shit creek. They will hunt you down through every county until you are wiped out.
But if you stay small time, live within that county. Get skilled, so people wouldn't even think it's you. That be the way to do it. I really can't see big bandit groups lasting that long to do much damage.
Posted By Abigor at 02:18 AM - Tue Feb 13 2018
Well...is it fun for a farmer or a merchant to spend days doing something just to be ruined by another player?
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind if players want to delve into banditry, but since it's something generally not accepted, they need to know and face the consequences if the are caught.
Well in an open world game like CoE, a farmer should be expected to be robbed at some point. No one should be going into this game thinking they will be safe at any given point.
It's weird logic I'm seeing honestly. Most people are thinking nobles will lose their titles within the first year. With most people accepting of that fact. Yet they don't seem to put much thought into how losing it will happen. But we have people going on and on about trolls/bandits etc. Do people really think bandits will be the ones overthrowing mayors/counts etc?
And really why are bandits in general so hated? Cause they follow no rules? But I say "Hey guys I'm a pirate". Oh yeah I'm now loved by all. Want to join some kingdoms barony and go to war, then really fuck up whole counties? Yeah that's cool mate.
Who is to say what's a troll anyway? People seem to throw that word around like candy already. Like griefer. People have so many different meanings for it, it really becomes a useless word. While not just be more open to people having different playstyles? That would be nice.
I think that when most people talk about griefers and trolls their concerns actually aren't centered around a singular loss, but rather the focus is on the effect and frustration of harassment. A real bandit might kill you and take your things, but that's the end of it. And, as frustrating as that might be, that's recoverable. But if that same bandit waits near your body hoping to catch you when you return and do it all again? We're moving beyond the realm of banditry and into the realm of griefing/trolling, aren't we?
That seems like a reasonable thing to want your game to be free of and I find it hard to fault the concerns related to it. For us as developers though, the challenge is to make sure that, in addressing those concerns, we don't also make impossible the different playstyles you're alluding to. A world is more than just prophetic chosen ones and big bad guys, after all, and we need to make sure that the tools are in place for you all to find your niche in the world and exploit it.
For some, that will mean taking up the banner of a chosen hero, or even a big bad, but for most of us, I suspect that means taking up a role pursuing our own advancement, be that as an explorer, some sort of tradesperson or a politician helping to build and strengthen the societies that you have created in our world. That takes good guys, bad guys and everyone in between.
But, what it doesn't need is jerks who are just out to ruin the experience for everyone else. We like to give you the tools to handle problems on your own, and that includes policing your fellow denizens of the world, but that doesn't exclude our own actions to ensure our world is open and accessible to those that want to play within it. Violators of our terms of service and our community guidelines will be dealt with as we become aware of them, plain and simple.
Hope that helps! :)
I agree with Snipe. There's a very big difference between a guy who is murdering people and robbing them, and someone who is just harassing you, and not benefiting from it in any way other than pissing someone off.
We need to keep the terms troll and deviant distinct from each other. They are not the same thing. Good deviants are vital for this game to be successful and it's messed up to put them in the category of "troll".
Merchants Beware of Ashy Sails..
