COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Do the devs overestimate themselfes?
+0

So, everyone seems to be hyped as f*. There's a shop coming where people can backe the game again. I'm really considering supporting the devs - but there is still a little uncertainity.

The game is freaking ambigious and the release date is rather soon. So while they don't have to create a lot of content like quests, cities and such, they do have a lot of mechanics to implement and test. That all should work nicely, there needs to be a lot of testing done etc.

I know that they e.g. outsource the server infrastructure - but still: The AI they are using needs to be configured to their wishes, they need to test everything. From what I know is, that they want to release in Q4 2017, so lets say they release on 31.12.2017. Some people will have 3 months early acces, meaning the actual launch will be 31.9.2017. Then there's a alpha 1/2 and beta 1/2. While it's not uncommon to still implement things while being in alpha/beta, like sometimes the devs only let the player test certain mechanics, the devs here will need to have some kind of test-run where they allow the players to just play and test how everything works together, so, basically, the game should be finished when in beta - at least, the core mechanics, so we get the date: 31.3.2017 - that's basically half an year from now...

So, there isn't any buffer timer planned in yet... [Like they also didn't plan any buffer time for the homepage].

So what's the reason they set the release date to Q4 17? Why not Q4 18? In the best case, they'll release a game earlier then announced, in the worst, they won't be able to be finished until then.

Basically what I'm saying is: From what I've seen, they all seem to be very passionate about it and I think they could do it, but they also showed some problem in project management [see the homepage - yeah that might be just an homepage but it's just a bad start, I personally don't really care about it] - but I don't understand why they set themselves such an early release date...

Just makes me feel like they are overestimating themselfes. :/

[I did like what I've read about their project management in general, I just can't imagen, that the timetable really fits]

So did the devs answer that? Did the devs plan in buffers? Will the progress bar on the homepage still be implemented?

I really hope they are going to do it and if they can answer this question realisticly, I'll for sure back it when possible again.

Edit: Please note that this is not an insult. I just hope that the devs take their time. I don't care if they take 1, 2 or 3 years. Just make this come true! ^^ [Or I'll turn into a rl assasin :o]


Friend Code: A1A1E8

8/4/2016 5:05:27 PM #16
+1

Posted By Deftly at 9:01 AM - Thu Aug 04 2016

I think the big deal about the date is the fact they gave it and people are thinking they most likely won't make it. They gave us a date without being fully staffed, which was really weird.

"People are concerned you say? well this kind of people should do other things with their money instead of pledging for a crowdfunded game- because those are always a risk"

This statement is why we have so many devs are abusing kickstarter and making crappy games with the promises of them being good. I think if you won't show concern and just blindly follow because you "believe" in the project you are part of the problem. We shouldn't bash devs on mistakes but if something that comes up that concerns the community it should be voiced properly.

I don't consider a release date something to beat on the devs for or to be concerned about yet. I have yet to follow a mmo (aion, rift, asherons call 1-2, Daoc, swg, swtor, or eve to name a few) that didn't have the original release date pushed back.

Once the development cycle hits beta 1 or so the release date doesn't change unless something is discovered in beta that needed reworked. At that point if the date changes its time to be concerned and to hammer the devs.

A date this early is little more than a place holder based on a WAG regardless of what date is actually used.

Holding them to it or beating them up for being ambitious about release date is a bit...odd to me.

8/4/2016 5:12:00 PM #17
+0

Posted By Malais at 9:07 AM - Thu Aug 04 2016

If I may I'd like t ask why a date is such a big deal?

As someone who has followed MMOs for well since their inception release dates wether listed as a range Q4 17 or an exact date they are always just a WAG as to when it will actually be done.

The issue here (and you need look no further than Star Citizen or any other crowdfunded game or project) is the sole reason that money is being solicited. Otherwise it wouldn't matter.

Being optimistic on the release date probably positively influences those interested in backing. If it was stated to be further out, that would no doubt have a negative impact on funding.

I back these games purely because I believe in the idea and want to support whoever is taking the risk! I never do it with any date or guarantee in mind...

However, not all backers are in it for that reason. They may just want to play a video game on the date the developer said they could. And that's where it's a bit of a conflict...

Posted By Malais at 1:05 PM - Thu Aug 04 2016

I have yet to follow a mmo (aion, rift, asherons call 1-2, Daoc, swg, swtor, or eve to name a few) that didn't have the original release date pushed back.

A date this early is little more than a place holder based on a WAG regardless of what date is actually used.

Holding them to it or beating them up for being ambitious about release date is a bit...odd to me.

Again, those weren't crowdfunded and asking people for money along side a release date... so that's the difference.


World Class Indoorsman

8/4/2016 5:14:38 PM #18
+7

I will be honest with you and tell you why I dropped $250 on the Kickstarter not knowing what will come of CoE. After much debate I realized for me..some one who is 32 years old...and for many people who are just like me...CoE is the LAST chance for a sandbox/medieval/ your decisions matter/make your mark on the world/ type of game. I know I'm not the only one who has been waiting for over a decade for a game with these tenets. It basically comes down to if CoE flops...which I am very confident it won't...I may be done with gaming...I am not interested in games like World of Warcraft any more..I am a more mature gamer and I need my MMO to have substance and depth. I know i'm not the only one with this sentiment.


Count Pledge

8/4/2016 5:17:38 PM #19
+20
[Featured]

Hey All,

We see questions/posts like this come up a lot. I may address this again in this week's update, I may not. In any case, let me provide my answer here.

Project management is a lot like throwing darts - If you don't have a target, you've got nothing to aim for.

When asked when we would like to have the game available by we said "Q4 2017". That's our target. That's what we're staffing and setting our milestones for. That's what determines how aggressive we set the schedule, how many hours we need to work, how many people we need to hire, etc.

But much like throwing darts, the further away the target is, the harder it is to guarantee a bullseye. That's what some people call the "Cone of Uncertainty."

So if asked, "When are you planning to have the game released?", the answer is "We plan to have the game released Q4 2017," much like a person throwing darts is planning to hit the target. Also, much like someone throwing darts, we're not planning for failure. We're doing the best we can to hit the target.

But, if you asked me today, "will you hit your target," my answer would be:

It's too soon to tell, but we're doing everything we can to make it so. We're making all the right choices, hiring the right people, and taking steps (such as the Prologue, KoE, and ElyriaMud) to increase our chances of success.


8/4/2016 5:25:58 PM #20
+3

Caspian,

Your responsiveness is appreciated. We all understand how daunting (and exciting of a task this is). Thanks for sticking your neck out and being willing to take all the vitriol from doubters and supporters alike. Most of all, thanks for the transparency and time to assuage fears.


8/4/2016 6:02:24 PM #21
+0

Either the OP doesn't understand what the word ambiguous means or I don't lol.

I think if you did a poll and asked the community if they thought the game would full release in 2017 probably 90% would say no.

But I also think that it's good to give yourself a goal. And easily attainable goals aren't good goals.


Merchants Beware of Ashy Sails..

8/4/2016 6:09:06 PM #22
+0

I would wait until pre-alpha prologues and alpha 1 to judge (even though you shouldn't judge alpha games too heavy) but THIS IS WHEN THE 10K, 100K AND 1M youtubers/streamers will have solid content to market to their fans. This in turn will lead to increase is donations/backing and maybe even merchandise purchasing and partnerships.


Discord: Julius#7218

8/4/2016 6:16:08 PM #23
+2

Posted By Caspian at 10:17 AM - Thu Aug 04 2016

Hey All,

We see questions/posts like this come up a lot. I may address this again in this week's update, I may not. In any case, let me provide my answer here.

Project management is a lot like throwing darts - If you don't have a target, you've got nothing to aim for.

When asked when we would like to have the game available by we said "Q4 2017". That's our target. That's what we're staffing and setting our milestones for. That's what determines how aggressive we set the schedule, how many hours we need to work, how many people we need to hire, etc.

But much like throwing darts, the further away the target is, the harder it is to guarantee a bullseye. That's what some people call the "Cone of Uncertainty."

So if asked, "When are you planning to have the game released?", the answer is "We plan to have the game released Q4 2017," much like a person throwing darts is planning to hit the target. Also, much like someone throwing darts, we're not planning for failure. We're doing the best we can to hit the target.

But, if you asked me today, "will you hit your target," my answer would be:

It's too soon to tell, but we're doing everything we can to make it so. We're making all the right choices, hiring the right people, and taking steps (such as the Prologue, KoE, and ElyriaMud) to increase our chances of success.

“If I had an hour to solve a problem I'd spend 55 minutes thinking about the problem and 5 minutes thinking about solutions.” - Einstein

People seem to gloss over the reality that you've been able to talk about this game at a relatively consistent depth of detail for where this is in the process.

They don't seem to realize that doing that is a LOT harder than it looks. They certainly don't realize how hard it is to lay out a plan without casting too much vagueness (everyone says it is too vague, but that just proves it's at the right place... heh).

I'm excited to see what happens once the foundation is set and those details begin to coalesce.

When I scream "MORE!" it's totally from interest and not at all from impatience. Well, much. :)


My $0.02 worth - subject to fluctuations in the community stock exchange.

8/4/2016 6:33:43 PM #24
+1

Thanks Caspian for the good answer. It's really nice to see that you take the time to respond.

And yeah, i didn't mean ambigious but ambitious. :p

And yeah, of course, a pledge should not be seen as a pre-purchase but as a investemt/support. Anyway, I'm sure I'll peldge it - don't know the amout yet, that will depend on what they offer. Guess if possible I'd like to be part of alpha 2/beta. [not for playing early but for actively helping]

We will see :)


Friend Code: A1A1E8

8/4/2016 6:49:46 PM #25
+0

Posted By balance at 11:33 AM - Thu Aug 04 2016

Thanks Caspian for the good answer. It's really nice to see that you take the time to respond.

And yeah, i didn't mean ambigious but ambitious. :p

And yeah, of course, a pledge should not be seen as a pre-purchase but as a investemt/support. Anyway, I'm sure I'll peldge it - don't know the amout yet, that will depend on what they offer. Guess if possible I'd like to be part of alpha 2/beta. [not for playing early but for actively helping]

We will see :)

Ohhhhhh. That makes a lot more sense lol.


Merchants Beware of Ashy Sails..

8/4/2016 8:52:09 PM #26
+2

Posted By BaronMagisto at 12:14 AM - Thu Aug 04 2016

I will be honest with you and tell you why I dropped $250 on the Kickstarter not knowing what will come of CoE. After much debate I realized for me..some one who is 32 years old...and for many people who are just like me...CoE is the LAST chance for a sandbox/medieval/ your decisions matter/make your mark on the world/ type of game. I know I'm not the only one who has been waiting for over a decade for a game with these tenets. It basically comes down to if CoE flops...which I am very confident it won't...I may be done with gaming...I am not interested in games like World of Warcraft any more..I am a more mature gamer and I need my MMO to have substance and depth. I know i'm not the only one with this sentiment.

I just want to echo this. I've grown up with MMOs, but at some point, the MMOs stopped growing with us... There is a huge segment of gamers that aren't happy with the rehash/reskinned games with no depth.

I was on the fence between pledging at Count and Duke. I'm very happy about the extra shiny perks I'll get with pledging Duke, but that was not the driving factor. The driving factor was that if this game is successful, it could transform games for years to come. It will change the industry, and it will pay off for every game I play, and every game my children play if they choose to do so.

Could CoE fall flat on it's face? Yes. Could they underdeliver or take too long to get to market and miss their window of opportunity? Definitely.

Is it worth that risk? Hell yes.


8/4/2016 9:00:42 PM #27
+0

Posted By ImmoDivine at 9:52 PM - Thu Aug 04 2016

Posted By BaronMagisto at 12:14 AM - Thu Aug 04 2016

I will be honest with you and tell you why I dropped $250 on the Kickstarter not knowing what will come of CoE. After much debate I realized for me..some one who is 32 years old...and for many people who are just like me...CoE is the LAST chance for a sandbox/medieval/ your decisions matter/make your mark on the world/ type of game. I know I'm not the only one who has been waiting for over a decade for a game with these tenets. It basically comes down to if CoE flops...which I am very confident it won't...I may be done with gaming...I am not interested in games like World of Warcraft any more..I am a more mature gamer and I need my MMO to have substance and depth. I know i'm not the only one with this sentiment.

I just want to echo this. I've grown up with MMOs, but at some point, the MMOs stopped growing with us... There is a huge segment of gamers that aren't happy with the rehash/reskinned games with no depth.

I was on the fence between pledging at Count and Duke. I'm very happy about the extra shiny perks I'll get with pledging Duke, but that was not the driving factor. The driving factor was that if this game is successful, it could transform games for years to come. It will change the industry, and it will pay off for every game I play, and every game my children play if they choose to do so.

Could CoE fall flat on it's face? Yes. Could they underdeliver or take too long to get to market and miss their window of opportunity? Definitely.

Is it worth that risk? Hell yes.

I think Star Citizen is doing the same, breaking boundaries and showing what gamers really want. If this game blows up to be half as successful as SC then that'll be a great display to the industry too. :) Lets hope this becomes even bigger than SC though, aim big ;)


The night is dark and full of terrors

8/4/2016 9:26:32 PM #28
+0

Just have some rum & coke and listen to this while you wait for CoE to come along.

8/4/2016 10:00:25 PM #29
+0

If I've learned anything while working in predictive analytics, it is that humans are notoriously bad at predicting the future.

I'll personally take "right" over "fast" any day, so good on you for making the tough decisions early! Keeping the communication channel open about changes to the timeline is about the best anyone can hope for!


- 1st Monthly Tactical Contest Winner

8/4/2016 10:04:07 PM #30
+0

Posted By Zwitterion at 3:00 PM - Thu Aug 04 2016

If I've learned anything while working in predictive analytics, it is that humans are notoriously bad at predicting the future.

I'll personally take "right" over "fast" any day, so good on you for making the tough decisions early! Keeping the communication channel open about changes to the timeline is about the best anyone can hope for!

Hell, humans are pretty bad at predicting the PAST much less the future. (By that, I mean that everyone has opinions as to why something happens, but no one cares to break down the variables and do an in-depth data-driven analysis for a lot of events.


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