Posted By VictoriaRachel at 09:56 AM - Wed Sep 28 2016

There is a big difference between getting more funding to reach further stretch goals and flesh out the game and getting more funding in order to release the minimum viable product.

Before any confusion starts up between the use of minimum viable product by VictoriaRachel, and the use of minimum viable game by Caspian, let's explain what the difference between them is.

A minimum viable product, is a term used to describe a marketable item that is capable of being placed onto a market and sold at a set price. It generally lacks anything special about it since it is a bare minimum product, but it is more or less complete. They are generally made by a company with the intentions of making something greater, but could not reached that goal.

A minimum viable game, is a term used to describe a game that has the bare minimum requirements to turn on and be played. Such as: turning it on, maneuvering through a menu screen, a game world regardless of its size, a player character, and movement. the majority of the public refers to these as alpha stage games.

The distinction between them is extremely important; because at no point did Caspian ever say that the 900k dollars from kickstarter was enough to make a minimum viable product. He stated that it was enough to make a minimum viable GAME.

He has done just that already. There is an alpha version of this game, we have seen the developers show it off on numerous occasions. Another thing to note is that at no point did Caspian say that SBS has already used up all of the kickstarter funds. Making the assumption that they have; simply because they are looking for more funding is a foul on the community's part, not on Caspian's.

However, regardless of if there is still money left over, Caspian and SBS have met their kickstarter requirements of a minimum viable game, and I personally applaud them for that.

Caspian would it be possible for some kind of progress bar to show funding level? Say we are here(your point A), we need $$$ before next stage(your B), then how much you need from investors (your C). I have no plans to bail on you guys but would love to know where it sits on the money scale. That is partly why I sat back and waited on the kickstarter truthfully.

I didn't take the time to read through all the posts here, but I'm just going to throw in my 2 cents.

I thoroughly read/watched everything before backing CoE, and this matter of funding came as no surprise to me. Caspian made it quite clear that the KickStarter funding was only an initial round of funding, and more would come later from a couple of big investors.

Anyway, that's all. I'm not surprised/bothered/concerned about any of it.

Posted By randys22 at 08:36 AM - Thu Sep 29 2016

Caspian would it be possible for some kind of progress bar to show funding level? Say we are here(your point A), we need $$$ before next stage(your B), then how much you need from investors (your C). I have no plans to bail on you guys but would love to know where it sits on the money scale. That is partly why I sat back and waited on the kickstarter truthfully.

They've already stated that will be added to the site so we can watch the progress as well.

Posted By Antelino at 09:00 AM - Thu Sep 29 2016

Posted By randys22 at 08:36 AM - Thu Sep 29 2016

Caspian would it be possible for some kind of progress bar to show funding level? Say we are here(your point A), we need $$$ before next stage(your B), then how much you need from investors (your C). I have no plans to bail on you guys but would love to know where it sits on the money scale. That is partly why I sat back and waited on the kickstarter truthfully.

They've already stated that will be added to the site so we can watch the progress as well.

Obviously wasn't stated clearly enough - we should get angry and question this as well /sarcasm

The reason that many feel mislead, misinformed or just simply uninformed is that SbS uses way too many channels to communicate. I for example don't care of any other but this forum, but would be fine in any other place, just not spread over Reddit, Twitter, voice chat and so on, including in videos.

When anything important was said through any other means, this forum should also receive a copy or link at least, or a very short summary.

The reality is that plenty of information is given, they are very open and communicative, but that information reaches only a very limited number. Not everyone can afford to spend a lot of time to be everywhere. Time is a commodity in short supply.

I knew that the kickstarter money was just for a start, and that minimum viable description meant just something that can be used to obtain more funds. This was clearly communicated at that time, just - exactly like now - not in a single place, but all over, through different channels. Not everyone can find all those puzzle pieces.

Attracting more money isn't bad, we kickstarters lose nothing if we don't play that "minimum viable product" that some understood that we will play (not me, thanks, testing it is fine, but to play it - no way), and instead we will have a far more developed product.

I think Eonian brings up a good point. Whether its irc, discord, kickstarter, or the forums, or youtube Q&As, finding all the information for a given subject is a bit of an egg hunt.

It would be nice to know which "official" medium is going to include all information going forward. It makes most sense for it to be the Dev Journals / this site.

I know i'm frequently not in irc when important tid bits get released, then later hear something that either contradicts previous information or puts it in a new light, so i sometimes feel obliged just to sit AFK in irc so that i can "Ctrl+F: Caspian" later and make sure i didn't miss anything.

He went over this already. I knew that the 900k from kickstarter was just a jump start and more money will be needed to get the ball rolling faster. I wouldnt worry about it to much. I think they have things under control and have a solid strategy for future funds.

I feel that most everyone who is familiar with software development understood that to get a complete game, the way it was envisioned, it would take in the neighborhood of $3-5 million.

Could this goal have been better expressed? Maybe... probably. But you can't go onto Kickstarter and say, "we need $3 million!" There is no way that they would raise that much money and all of the time and effort spent fundraising would have been lost because if you don't reach the KS goal, no funding occurs. Caspian and team were wise to set a target under $1 million.

Posted By Antelino at 11:00 AM - Thu Sep 29 2016

Posted By randys22 at 08:36 AM - Thu Sep 29 2016

Caspian would it be possible for some kind of progress bar to show funding level? Say we are here(your point A), we need $$$ before next stage(your B), then how much you need from investors (your C). I have no plans to bail on you guys but would love to know where it sits on the money scale. That is partly why I sat back and waited on the kickstarter truthfully.

They've already stated that will be added to the site so we can watch the progress as well.

Yeah no clue where it was stated. I don't look anywhere but on this site. I look through Caspian's post in this thread (and a few others he has been posting on lately) and did not see anything. If they already said where I would love to know so I can check it out when they get something setup.

Can't we go back to the good old days where people didn't want to see the financial spreadsheet and 5 year project plan with full disclosure before they buy a game?

When was the last time anyone thought "Hey that game looks good, I better do my due diligence and investigate the company and it's affiliates to make sure there are no conflicts of interest or financial liabilities that could make this game not fun to play"....

Why do people feel the need to complain BEFORE they get to play a game rather then afterwards?

I may be getting old but honestly, gamers today seem to have their heads up their arses and focus on all the wrong things in their 'hobby' and having fun playing games seems to have been relegated to the bottom of the list. Right at the top seem to be proving yourself right and appearing to be a financial genius able to determine exactly how much a game takes to be made and how industry vets are wrong.

No wonder solo players in MMO's are so common, once you spend several years listening to some of them you just don't want to risk a chance of actually playing with them in game lol

Posted By GrumpyHobbit at 4:51 PM - Thu Sep 29 2016

Can't we go back to the good old days where people didn't want to see the financial spreadsheet and 5 year project plan with full disclosure before they buy a game?

When was the last time anyone thought "Hey that game looks good, I better do my due diligence and investigate the company and it's affiliates to make sure there are no conflicts of interest or financial liabilities that could make this game not fun to play"....

Why do people feel the need to complain BEFORE they get to play a game rather then afterwards?

I may be getting old but honestly, gamers today seem to have their heads up their arses and focus on all the wrong things in their 'hobby' and having fun playing games seems to have been relegated to the bottom of the list. Right at the top seem to be proving yourself right and appearing to be a financial genius able to determine exactly how much a game takes to be made and how industry vets are wrong.

No wonder solo players in MMO's are so common, once you spend several years listening to some of them you just don't want to risk a chance of actually playing with them in game lol

a fellow grumpy old man!!!

Posted By Caspian at 7:30 PM - Thu Sep 29 2016

Posted By Vucar at 09:57 AM - Thu Sep 29 2016

I think Eonian brings up a good point. Whether its irc, discord, kickstarter, or the forums, or youtube Q&As, finding all the information for a given subject is a bit of an egg hunt.

It would be nice to know which 'official' medium is going to include all information going forward. It makes most sense for it to be the Dev Journals / this site.

If it's not in a Dev Journal / Update, News, or the Game Guide, it's not official.

IRC, Discord, Q&A's, etc. are all subject to change as they're not intended as repositories for information. They're places for discussion, and conclusions from those discussions are eventually brought over to more official channels.

Good to know. What about the official Wiki?