Posted By Malais at 10:42 PM - Mon Nov 12 2018

Posted By JohnWhite at 3:59 PM - Mon Nov 12 2018

Follow up question if possible:

During KoE can we slaughter the locals and bring in characters from other biomes to play as a specific race in a specific biome or will the population numbers reset to what we saw in Domain Selection map before expo / launch ?

Been a while since we had a genocidal post.

My personal hope is no. You can migrate in bloodlines changing the micro level but not the demographics at the macro level. Ie small changes but not enough to change the statistics in Snipes post.

I understand doing this will invalidate the "spirit of the law", however it was suggested before that KoE would allow for the migration of certain tribes to other biomes for people that wanted to play it, now since Mayors are locked to have a certain percentage of the population then obviously one can achieve the desired percentage by either bringing in many foreigners or by curbing the population of locals.

Also KoE has conquest so population variations can occur for more than one reason and not always because the resident nobility wished it so. For example it has been mentioned before as well that KoE will not let you lose a title that you bought BUT will it stop you from choosing the tribe that you thought you selected at domain selection if for any reason you "afk KoE" ?

Both obvious solutions have problems (one restricting choices and not letting manual migration fix it, the other potentially changing the selection you thought you previously made) and can make expo / release feel awkward if what happened before just gets ignored (e.g. a race wipeout magically showing up later) or make KoE look very weird (everyone killing their own populace to achieve a desired threshold).

In any case I am curious about what is planned but I also personally suspect the flexibility allowed to mayors may cause some undesired effects.

As far as I know, the following info on the effect that KOE has on Exposition is still valid.

From Discord Soul-Chamber 1.1.18##Selection#

1. [Covered in SnipeHunters post]

2. During Domain/Settlement selection the nobility and aristocracy will claim their domains and settlements, which grants them the ability to govern those lands during KoE.

3. At the beginning of KoE, Nobility and Aristocracy will be required to pick a tribe that matches the starting data as defined in #1 above. However, by using multiple remnants, they can create alternate characters that can migrate from other regions into their domains / settlements and be played.

4. Over the course of KoE, population, tribes, etc. will shift.

5. At the beginning of Exposition, the Nobility and Aristocracy will continue their governance by playing the descendants of their remnant ancestors. Through breeding, etc. their bloodlines may be less pure.

6. Non-nobility/aristocracy can now pick from any families that exist in the domain/settlement, which includes non-standard tribes in the regions as determined through play in KoE.

From Discord Soul-Chamber 1.1.2018##Kingdoms of Elyria#

Caspian: KoE needs to be a balance. It needs to allow changes, such as the changing of borders, leaders, etc. while simultaneously not taking away anyone's lands, titles, etc.

After much thought and discussion, we've thus far decided to allow KoE to be a meta-game. That is, the events of KoE are real, but aren't tied directly to the players who do them. Here's an example....

I'm Count A, and I invade Count B's land. I take them away, and I become the new ruler of County A and B. Yay! Congrats to me. I now start gaining EP (or some other currency) being the owner of County A and County B. I'll start building and developing the land of County B now, because doing so gains me more money, wealth, power, etc....

Now we get to the end of KoE. County B is RETURNED to the original owner (if they want it back), and all improvements, etc. I've made to the land become part of the County and settlements he/she sees at the start of Exposition.

So.... I as Count of County A gained value/wealth from sacking and occupying County B, which will result in me being able to do more with County A during Exposition - AND Count B benefited from my occupation of his lands, because when it's returned to him it's better than when I found it.

Caspian: It means, when you defeat Count B, they will naturally continue playing, likely in an unclaimed NPC County. If they hold onto that unclaimed NPC county long enough, and add enough value, they may choose to stay there rather than return at the beginning of Exposition. Caspian: Essentially, during KoE, people will be gaining some currency for the amount of land/wealth/power they hold. The more you conquer, the more currency you gain. Then, that currency carries over into Exposition where you are rewarded for your success in KoE.

Meanwhile, changes to the world itself, such as the construction of settlements, buildings, etc... carry over from KoE to Exposition. >

So sounds like Hrothi King for Vornair, we will have to convert the Hrothi to be PRO-beard now.

Posted By Shamstone at 2:38 PM - Mon Nov 12 2018

...

Slaughter the locals and you may find a full scale rebellion - so your rule will be the inside of a prison cell!

Or maybe from the head of a pike. ;-)

I don't think souls, sparks, and restrictions on permadeath apply during KoE.

FenixFireSage's post clarified many of the questions I had. KoE seems to be designed to be the vehicle for simulating all the prior migration history of tribes and tribe members from their ur-lands. (By ur-lands I mean nominal root lands in the same sense that proto-Indo-European is the root of Indo-European languages. That is to say, it may never have existed in exactly the form hypothesized.)

Given that assumption, there are various effective strategies for raising the proportion of a desired tribe in any area, thereby lowering the proportion of one or more other tribes in that area. Obviously, the Neran tribal description makes them out to be the most easily migrated tribe, although the descriptions of some other tribes and biomes shows some specific tribes and biomes to be more resistant to such migration than others.

Equally obviously, any effective strategy by one domain lord can be countered by effective strategies by other lords. Perhaps not so obviously, attractive methods will work better than repulsive methods in the long run. To whit, there will likely be no analogues of Dras history (as recounted by the Dras) reenacted during KoE.

My original hypothesis of waves of invaders becoming a distinct ruling class comprising foreign tribe members will not be a viable option at the start of Exposition. We can assume that such a situation is a temporary rather than a permanent state. As was the case for Norsemen in Normandy and Normans in England, the foreign rulers will eventually come to see themselves as native to the domains they reside in, and both cultural and genetic diffusion will have stabilized to homogeneity both at the beginning of KoE and the beginning of Exposition. This is not entirely realistic, meaning that it lacks the optimum degree of verisimilitude (IMO), but it simplifies a system that would otherwise no doubt be subject to abuse followed by whines of unfairness.

TLDR: It's not ideal, and not as realistic as I would like, but it will at least prevent dominant populations of Brudvir-Janoa hybrids (e.g.) and resultant Brudvir-Janoa nobility (e.g.) before Exposition.

So short answers are:

1) It is all going to come down to where the King decides to make the capital.

2) And the multiple Duchies and Counties must all be contiguous.

3) Choose wisely.

4) There can be "some" modification during PreLyria.

5) But these rules do exist for a reason.

6) Snipe comes through again.

Posted By FenixFireSage at 11:15 PM - Mon Nov 12 2018

If I could ask a couple of questions about the Mayor Tribe lock and your answer, because I'm a bit confused between Snipe's quote

"4) When a mayor picks a settlement, they will be bound to the tribe that is most numerous in that settlement, or any tribe that has at least half as much representation. For example, if the Neran are the largest block at 40% of the settlement, but Kypiq and Waerd both make up at least 20% of the settlement, the mayor can pick between Neran, Kypiq, or Waerd."

and Caspian's

1. At the beginning of KoE, Nobility and Aristocracy will be required to pick a tribe that matches the starting data as defined in #1 above. However, by using multiple remnants, they can create alternate characters that can migrate from other regions into their domains / settlements and be played.

First I'm not sure what you mean by remnant. Also when you mention creating alt characters does this pertain to the souls on your account? Do I have to make enough migrant characters to equal half of the majority tribe (the 20% used in the example)?

1. At the beginning of Exposition, the Nobility and Aristocracy will continue their governance by playing the descendants of their remnant ancestors. Through breeding, etc. their bloodlines may be less pure.

So are you saying that as a mayor I would originally have my reserved family name attached to the character who belongs to the majority and that I would have to breed the migrated tribe into the family (forcing me to be mixed breed) in order to keep my family name and mayor title come expo?

First things first, I suggest reading Design journal #19: Pre-Alpha Experiences and all subsequent updates concerning the pre-alpha.

Now let's break Caspian's quote into its relevant parts:

1. As a mayor - just a mayor, it's possible to be Dras in Kingdom 6.
2. You'll want to pick a settlement close to the Swamp border during Domain & Settlement Selection,
3. then during KoE play a character from the swamp. Move them down to the neighboring settlement you've chosen and build a life there.
4. During Exposition, you'll then create your character in that settlement, and the Drasean family you moved down there will be available to choose from.

Part 1 states that the following method is ONLY valid for Aristocrats [not Nobels] who want to be a pure Dras in Kingdom 6 at the start of Exposition.

Part 2 refers ONLY to Domain & Settlement Selection which is also what the entirety of Snipe's post is about. These rules ONLY apply when a player FIRST starts playing their Noble or Aristocrat Dynasty. However, a player DOES NOT have to select during their "window of Influence" and can postpone selection until the final deadline prior to either the start of Exposition or Launch. This means that the player could play the game until they find their ideal unclaimed domain and then claim it.

Part 3 is when COE officially starts as mentioned in the DJs using the KOE Client. If a player skips KOE after selection then they will have no opportunity to change anything the history of their domain. However, as mentioned in both the above-linked DJ and found in the very first day of the Soul-Chamber by searching for "in: soul-chamber remnant":

won't require Sparks of Life. However, we also want to be able to pseudo-accurately determine how people will behave with our normal risk/reward system.

So we will provide a new type of "Spark of Life" which we've tentatively been calling "Remnants". These Remnants allow you to create a character from a "past life", until they die. Alpha/Beta testers will accumulate a certain number of remnants over time. If you do something dumb and get yourself dead, you'll have to wait until your remnants reset before you'll be able to create another character.

So players WILL have all their paid SPARKS at the start of Exposition. During PreElyria/KOE players will have a number of immortal "Character Slot" remnants that will be able to possess other bodies after a rest. Unlike with Souls & Sparks, there is no Astral Travel.

"Over the course of KoE, population, tribes, etc. will shift." Either through your use of alts or those of others and this will affect the creation of newly created commoners, gentry, or elected mayors in Exposition. This will be possible since EP WILL BE REQUIRED to play any character in Exposition in the exact same way that Story Points will work at Launch. This means that a Bloodline player with enough points can use them to elevate someone to the town council and become elected Mayor. It is also possible that they could create a newly possessed character from any open unclaimed Noble NPC family.

During KOE Nobles and Aristocrats can also start to play their originally locked by Selection characters. Both the noble and non-noble characters will be able to cross-breed during KOE.

At the beginning of Exposition, both the Nobility and Aristocracy will be able to continue playing the titled descendants of their [originally locked] remnant ancestors. However, because of intentional breeding in KOE their bloodlines may be less pure.

Part 4 of Caspian's discord post is referring to the fact that Non-nobility/aristocracy can also create a new character from any family existing in a settlement. If a new aristocrat character is made with a pure blooded non-native member from a migrated family then they have essentially been elected mayor. The previous native family[which may or may not be pure] will still exist in the settlement and the previous mayor will be a member of the town council.

Everyone has access to the Dynasty character codes for the remnant characters played in KOE and any other characters they may make afterward. It is entirely possible to start Exposition playing the same characters you ended KOE with.

Concerning surnames please see my relevant post in another thread.

can't think of a more racially restrictive game in videogame history. So we got these tribe design journals over a year ago, but we (higher-tier packages) can't be them unless we live in that kingdom?

or let me just ask another way... I like Brudvir … other than joining the kingdom that locks away Brudvir Biome, how can I be a Brudvir mayor at launch? (seems the migration method that was promised awhile ago is a lot more murkier now?

Posted By Samaric at 1:13 PM - Sat Nov 17 2018

can't think of a more racially restrictive game in videogame history. So we got these tribe design journals over a year ago, but we (higher-tier packages) can't be them unless we live in that kingdom?

or let me just ask another way... I like Brudvir … other than joining the kingdom that locks away Brudvir Biome, how can I be a Brudvir mayor at launch? (seems the migration method that was promised awhile ago is a lot more murkier now?

That's pretty much the premise of the game. You have to make some difficult choices and those choices are sure to lead to conflict

Posted By Samaric at 9:13 PM - Fri Nov 16 2018

can't think of a more racially restrictive game in videogame history. So we got these tribe design journals over a year ago, but we (higher-tier packages) can't be them unless we live in that kingdom?

or let me just ask another way... I like Brudvir … other than joining the kingdom that locks away Brudvir Biome, how can I be a Brudvir mayor at launch? (seems the migration method that was promised awhile ago is a lot more murkier now?

Please read my two posts before yours at #32 and #38. The Domain & Settlement Selection rules concerning tribes ONLY apply when a player FIRST starts playing their Noble or Aristocrat Dynasty. If you want to play at Launch a Brudvir Mayor in a non-Brudvir Kingdom then you have three options.

1. Follow Caspians quote [from #38] for being a Drasnean mayor in a neighboring kingdom and replace every mention of Dras with Brudvir.
2. Follow a modification of Caspians quote by having a settlement farther away from the Taiga and either luckily finding a nearby Brudvir family to move or else have a very long migration.
3. Delay Settlement selection and actively work to create a new settlement or enlarge a small unclaimed hamlet in your desired Kingdom with Brudvir. You could then use Settlement selection to bypass the Count or possibly claim a neighboring town after becoming mayor of the first town and combine the two towns. You could then have at the start of Exposition several Brudvir families from which to play either an NTC or a new character as the Mayor as well possibly a larger town.

Is what Caspian said still valid for a Count that desire to migrate ?

Posted By LaLicorne at 06:22 AM - Sun Dec 02 2018

Is what Caspian said still valid for a Count that desire to migrate ?

Hey LaLicorne, I think you may be misunderstanding what Caspian said in the post you quoted. Snipe gives a very detailed explanation in this post but the short version is counts cannot migrate.

You can potentially be one of the less prominent tribes in the Kingdom, but you still have to be the most dominant tribe in your county.

Hey Labbe! Thanks for your answer.

When I read this Posted By Caspian at 3:23 PM - Mon Nov 06 2017

• King/Queen: Must be from the dominant tribe of the biome which is their Seat of Power.
• Duke/Duchess: Must be from the dominant tribe of their biome.
• Count/Countess: Must be frim one of the dominant tribes of the biome their county resides in.
• Mayor/Baron: Can be any tribe found within the settlement they govern.
• Gentry/Adventurers: Bloodline/tribe is based solely on the family they join.

The above rule applies to Exposition, however KoE can be used by Mayors/Barons or even Counts to seed their region with different bloodlines.

This part states clearly it's possible for a Count : "The above rule applies to Exposition, however KoE can be used by Mayors/Barons or even Counts to seed their region with different bloodlines."

Any idea ?

Posted By LaLicorne at 07:32 AM - Sun Dec 02 2018

Hey Labbe! Thanks for your answer.

When I read this Posted By Caspian at 3:23 PM - Mon Nov 06 2017

• King/Queen: Must be from the dominant tribe of the biome which is their Seat of Power.
• Duke/Duchess: Must be from the dominant tribe of their biome.
• Count/Countess: Must be frim one of the dominant tribes of the biome their county resides in.
• Mayor/Baron: Can be any tribe found within the settlement they govern.
• Gentry/Adventurers: Bloodline/tribe is based solely on the family they join.

The above rule applies to Exposition, however KoE can be used by Mayors/Barons or even Counts to seed their region with different bloodlines.

This part states clearly it's possible for a Count : "The above rule applies to Exposition, however KoE can be used by Mayors/Barons or even Counts to seed their region with different bloodlines."

Any idea ?

Seeding your region is basically taking someone from a tribe that is not native to that biome, and moving them into that biome so that gentry and base elyrian level players can pick that family and play as that tribe in a non native biome.

I do not believe the intent was ever to have a non native tribe become dominant in any one region, and frankly may be impossible anyway.

I could see it at the mayor/baron level if they got enough people to help them migrate, but to get a majority of a non native tribe at a county level would be a massive undertaking, if it was even supported by the mechanics.