You have some good points. At the same time, how many actual experts in those arts play computer games? Most of us will never know whether something is "proper" or not, so hiring maestros or senseis to put on mocap gear and go through the motions may not be feasible or cost effective.
I do recall hearing that some of the pre-made combat styles can be purchased as a Unreal 4 module which would help save time and money.
Like Teland said, its less about how proper and true to real form the combat looks (which almost none of us would know anyway), and more about how enjoyable it is.
The majority of movies and games i enjoy have people holding guns in silly ways or doing things with them that would be unnecessary or downright dangerous in real life, but its just a game and its just meant for entertainment.
Combat feeling fluid and enjoyable >> Combat looking great >> Combat being realistic relative to real world.
of course being playable comes first,, but in my opinion, real form of combat is also the most fluid and great looking type of combat.
Obviously they can not take the whole idea of combat, related with a certain type of weapon and implement it all, which would be huge amount of information and could make things unnecessarily difficult, but certain openings, strike moves, defence moves could be much more functional if they are done by someone who knows what he/she is doing and have necessary physical ability to do certain things,
for example I can right now learn how to wield a certain type of sword from a youtube video, but trust me you wouldn't like to see my movements in game instead of someone else who has better physical condition and ability.
Being realistic, in my opinion also makes it more playable because instead of adapting to synthetic type of combat, one could directly have a feeling of end result of movement during combat.
Posted By Volin at 5:20 PM - Wed Jan 18 2017
Being realistic, in my opinion also makes it more playable because instead of adapting to synthetic type of combat, one could directly have a feeling of end result of movement during combat.
I vehemently disagree with this.
Look up a game called Exanima - a top down RPG with the most realistic physics of true combat out there. Everything from speed and momentum of the actor, to the point of contact of the weapon, to the momentum of the target and angle of the attack are all considered in how hits are taken.
It sounds great on paper, but its the clunkiest shit i've ever played or seen be played.
Trying to simulate real world combat and translate that to the mouse and keyboard, stripping away all the muscle memory involved in real combat just leaves you with this awkward abomination that no one enjoys or even wants to watch.
Posted By Vucar at 03:29 AM - Thu Jan 19 2017
Posted By Volin at 5:20 PM - Wed Jan 18 2017
Being realistic, in my opinion also makes it more playable because instead of adapting to synthetic type of combat, one could directly have a feeling of end result of movement during combat.
I vehemently disagree with this.
Look up a game called Exanima - a top down RPG with the most realistic physics of true combat out there. Everything from speed and momentum of the actor, to the point of contact of the weapon, to the momentum of the target and angle of the attack are all considered in how hits are taken.
It sounds great on paper, but its the clunkiest shit i've ever played or seen be played.
Trying to simulate real world combat and translate that to the mouse and keyboard, stripping away all the muscle memory involved in real combat just leaves you with this awkward abomination that no one enjoys or even wants to watch.
I just checked Exanima and I agree with you, but I think it is just a bad example, and what I suggest is not about bringing the whole reality of combat from the real world to the game, it is only about the form of movement and feeling of accuracy, a really good example would be dark souls perhaps for what I meant (especially III), movements feel fluid and realistic, but in the end I guess I will have to wait till they release some other footage with other weapons to make any suggestion, there are only two footage where we saw the combat, and they are both with a piercing sword, and not much information about how it works, but I really wish that we will be able to feel the difference between weight and momentum of different weapons.
Posted By Vucar at 8:29 PM - Wed Jan 18 2017
Look up a game called Exanima - a top down RPG with the most realistic physics of true combat out there.
Exanima is not a good example. It's automated movement of a skeleton following the velocity of your mouse movement with faulty weapon weights. You don't grapple and your legs look like little nubbins as you swing your weapon like a dingus.
Posted By Volin at 9:36 PM - Wed Jan 18 2017
... a really good example would be dark souls perhaps for what I meant (especially III), movements feel fluid and realistic...
I believe you're talking about how the attacks feel weighty and the enemies give tells and motion. I too would like combat to go towards this direction. The enemies get stronger because their "tell" time has decreased. So an attack animation goes from 60 frames to say 40 or 30 rather than they get more HP and become a meat sponge.
Posted By Teland at 7:25 PM - Wed Jan 18 2017
Most of us will never know whether something is "proper" or not, so hiring maestros or senseis to put on mocap gear and go through the motions may not be feasible or cost effective.
There are a lot of folks who got into weapon fighting because of video games. I'm not the best at it but it's one of the reasons why I started. You also have individuals like Matt Easton (of which I took a class from him last year at Longpoint) who critiques Hollywood and knows his stuff who would gladly give suggestions. If they wanted, they could locate a local school and just ask. Here is a list for the European weapon schools (the interactive map as of this posting is not working for some reason).
Also I'll reiterate what some have posted.
Gameplay fun > Realism
But you can learn a lot from the real sources and not something that was made up. (like that damn chest plate armor they keep using in the screenshots....it's too long and goes to the lower waistline instead of stopping below the ribs and faulds cover the stomach.... -grumble grumble-...)
Also...real swordfighting goes by pretty quickly and I'm sure folks don't want fights ending that fast.
Posted By Jouten at 09:30 AM - Thu Jan 19 2017
Posted By Vucar at 8:29 PM - Wed Jan 18 2017
Look up a game called Exanima - a top down RPG with the most realistic physics of true combat out there.
Exanima is not a good example. It's automated movement of a skeleton following the velocity of your mouse movement with faulty weapon weights. You don't grapple and your legs look like little nubbins as you swing your weapon like a dingus.
Posted By Volin at 9:36 PM - Wed Jan 18 2017
... a really good example would be dark souls perhaps for what I meant (especially III), movements feel fluid and realistic...
I believe you're talking about how the attacks feel weighty and the enemies give tells and motion. I too would like combat to go towards this direction. The enemies get stronger because their "tell" time has decreased. So an attack animation goes from 60 frames to say 40 or 30 rather than they get more HP and become a meat sponge.
Posted By Teland at 7:25 PM - Wed Jan 18 2017
Most of us will never know whether something is "proper" or not, so hiring maestros or senseis to put on mocap gear and go through the motions may not be feasible or cost effective.
There are a lot of folks who got into weapon fighting because of video games. I'm not the best at it but it's one of the reasons why I started. You also have individuals like Matt Easton (of which I took a class from him last year at Longpoint) who critiques Hollywood and knows his stuff who would gladly give suggestions. If they wanted, they could locate a local school and just ask. Here is a list for the European weapon schools (the interactive map as of this posting is not working for some reason).
Also I'll reiterate what some have posted.
Gameplay fun > Realism
But you can learn a lot from the real sources and not something that was made up. (like that damn chest plate armor they keep using in the screenshots....it's too long and goes to the lower waistline instead of stopping below the ribs and faulds cover the stomach.... -grumble grumble-...)
Also...real swordfighting goes by pretty quickly and I'm sure folks don't want fights ending that fast.
Back when I was treating Caspian like I was a CIA interrogator over the combat stuff, I recall him saying that combat was being influenced by multiple games but dark soul being one that held a lot of weight.. This could change like other things in the game. When it comes to actual movement and such with weapons, it was also stated that a few of the employees were also into that in RL and had experience with some of the weapons.
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Posted By Kab at 11:29 AM - Thu Jan 19 2017
Back when I was treating Caspian like I was a CIA interrogator over the combat stuff, I recall him saying that combat was being influenced by multiple games but dark soul being one that held a lot of weight.. This could change like other things in the game. When it comes to actual movement and such with weapons, it was also stated that a few of the employees were also into that in RL and had experience with some of the weapons.
Yeh I remember harassing him about it on IRC and had a debate with him over Joachim Meyer. He said he barely studied him in the SCA and said his longsword stuff was influenced from rapier. I was slightly triggered and we had a few pleasant exchanges that I'm sure he doesn't remember. But he does have an above average knowledge base on the stuff.
