I'm glad someone decided to take a positive approach to some of the Kypiq's glaring weaknesses. I just gave up when thinking about the drawbacks associated with Kypiqs and moved elsewhere.

One thing to note though

Add fleeing options such as the ability to ride smaller animals;

I believe Kypiq can currently ride Canis Rabbits that aren't a viable mount for other races due to the size

Posted By kkillroyv2 at 9:43 PM - Sun Jan 20 2019

I believe Kypiq can currently ride Canis Rabbits that aren't a viable mount for other races due to the size

Was not aware of that. That sounds absolutely amazing.

I do want to point out that the Kypiq are not the only trbe with 3D building concerns. The Waerd, the Hrothi and the Yoru all have the same need, and for that reason all parcels everywhere are now 3D.

I will give your writeup a closer look later, but I did notice that one bit right off the bat.

Good post overall.

When looking at the aspects of transportation/infrastructure one can argue that similar problems may be faced by the toresk [we don't know how deep their wetlands are on a consistent basis]. The Dras may face similar issues as well.... and then look at the hrothi mountainous terrain.

When looking at the vertical building aspect.... Just refer to what bombastus has mentioned.

Regarding combat, I understand the Kypiq being glass jawed. Why should they get a smaller hitbox and equal health etc? However, I do agree with the stamina aspect. I do not see a reason for them having lower stamina than other tribes.

Regarding mounts, Caspian and crew has mentioned biome specific mounts a few different times. Perhaps this is one of the ways to address the Kypiq movement situation.

Regarding food production, Kypiq have a fairly unique opportunity with ironwood trees [if done right, imo] that their produce or w/e can be grown on a vertical scale in addition to what most tribes can do.

Posted By Bombastus at 10:14 PM - Sun Jan 20 2019

I do want to point out that the Kypiq are not the only tribe with 3D building concerns. The Waerd, the Hrothi and the Yoru all have the same need, and for that reason, all parcels everywhere are now 3D.

The problem isn't the 3D specificity, it's the fact that it is closely related to the trees and that it might be extremely more difficult to place/orient, especially using a procedural algorithm.

I'm not sure I understand how the 3D required by the Hrothi or the Waerd requires an entirely new building system by itself. I thought the Hrothi used regular buildings and tunnel system (which will be required with or without the Hrothi).

Depending on how they want to tackle the city construction, the fact that it is on a tree might require new construction mechanics, such as a slot based system, in order to maximise the efficiency of the building disposition. Either way, I still think it might be a problem without a real solution, but I tried my best to provide a possible path that minimises the amount of work that the devs will have to do if they allow Kypiqs to put the buildings on the ground.

Food In regards to food: I'm not sure why everyone thinks this will be a problem. There was enough food for the proto nerans to survive; that much is clear, else there would be no kypiqs, so why would there not be ample fruit amongst the trees to feed most settlements?

The kypiq can also farm atop the mushrooms, and, if needed, the forrest floor, but availability of land is far less problematic than the moral questions of farming for kypiq. We have to farm plants which are not harmed by the tribe harvesting them, so certain plants are ruled out, but aside from that food really shouldn't be an issue unless you grow to the point of over population, but anywhere will have an issue with that (albiet the population max will vary from town to town).

Combat Combat. We 100% will be screwed in the case of combat. I feel like fleeing should be more of an option, but at the same time I get it- we're witty and clever by necessity, not simply 'culture;' when attacked those of us who survived were those who could say "wait if I duck under/above/through this area/tree/bush/crevice my persuers won't be able to get me!"

Speed wasn't a factor in those moments, it would he like trying to outrun a cheetah. To me it's like riding a motorcycle- at all times you should know where your safest "escape route" is, esle if something goes wrong you'll have no plan and rely purely on luck.

This is offest by our homes being insanely defensible, and our tribe being an economic power house. Essentially the idea is we will need to be protected, but those who protect us will have a decent advantage in that we can help ensure their economic success, while those who oppose us will suffer economically from our lack of help as long as anyone else is getting help from us. If we do this long enough our tech will be advanced enough that having our favor in a war will be like garnering the gods favor in legends. No, we won't fight your battle, but our blessing- and the gifts we give you- will almost garuntee you're victorious.

conclusion if we survive the begining of the game, we will quickly become a force to be reckoned with, and if any of the Bigs recognize the potential advantages our technology will ultimately provide they will ensure we live long enough to do so. We have managed to survive via wit and invention, and come launch that won't change.

Posted By ZorTir at 10:29 PM - Sun Jan 20 2019

When looking at the vertical building aspect.... Just refer to what bombastus has mentioned.

I'm still not convinced they require entirely new construction systems. I've had a difficult time understanding their building and didn't find any relevant information on the subject. I'll try and educate myself a bit more!

Regarding combat, I understand the Kypiq being glass jawed. Why should they get a smaller hitbox and equal health etc? However, I do agree with the stamina aspect. I do not see a reason for them having lower stamina than other tribes.

I don't want them to have equal health. I want them to have a lower health pool (which makes sense) and remove the glass jaw.

Regarding food production, Kypiq have a fairly unique opportunity with ironwood trees [if done right, imo] that their produce or w/e can be grown on a vertical scale in addition to what most tribes can do.

You're right, I really hope they nail this one out of the park and that they maximise those trees usability.

Again, I'll make sure to read more and more about the 3D construction.

Is the Alpha launched and I wasn't told???

How can there be a problem without a 'game' to test the mechanics?

Are you implying the devs are too daft to make the mechanics of being a small race compatible in combat to taller ones but still maintain their racial traits?

Not trying to come off as obtuse,I'm really not ( it was a well constructed post, just jumping the gun way too early), but I don't see how there is a "problem with Kypiq that needs fixed", as per your post, when we're not even in pre-alpha yet.

This post comes off as a "I'm in love with Kypiq, but not the balancing factors" of their race.

Solution: Play Neran. Hope this helps.

A clarification and a suggestion: According to multiple comments from Caspian search discord "from: Caspian#3850 climb" Kypiqs don't actually climb trees, they use ladders and other constructed technology.

Now, I think that's rubbish. 1, it even further hinders them from expanding, making it incredibly difficult to set up new settlements even in the broadleaf forest. 2, smaller size does not equate to worse climbing. They are less strong, yes, but they are also significantly less heavy because they are so small. What matters is their strength relative to their weight.

I enjoyed your post a lot Chloet, but there's a few things I disagree.

Posted By Chloet at 10:41 PM - Sun Jan 20 2019

Food In regards to food: I'm not sure why everyone thinks this will be a problem. There was enough food for the proto nerans to survive; that much is clear, else there would be no kypiqs, so why would there not be ample fruit amongst the trees to feed most settlements?

I don't think we can compare lore decisions to actual in-game mechanics. The main problem is that we have excessively fewer options and possibilities when it comes to food. We might be alright and have no problems, but If there is ever a problem with our only source of food, we're screwed. I understand this is not a major problem, but something to think about. If we need to expand locally for some reason, food might be our bottleneck.

I absolutely loved your part on the ethical side of cultivating. I think it is another thing we need to keep an eye out for.

Combat Combat. We 100% will be screwed in the case of combat. I feel like fleeing should be more of an option, but at the same time I get it- we're witty and clever by necessity, not simply 'culture;' when attacked those of us who survived were those who could say "wait if I duck under/above/through this area/tree/bush/crevice my persuers won't be able to get me!"

Speed wasn't a factor in those moments, it would he like trying to outrun a cheetah.

I think this is the major point you got wrong though. Speed is everything in an open-world PvP game. Even if you're slightly faster then you're opponent, you will be able to outrun him if you're screwed or get him if he tries to flee. Speed is arguably one of the most important skills in a game like CoE or Conan Exiles when it comes to fighting.

Furthermore, I doubt there will always be a place to hide which will be mechanically unaccessible by NPCs or players.

Aside from that, I agreed with most of your post.

Posted By Lord_Greystoke at 10:43 PM - Sun Jan 20 2019

Is the Alpha launched and I wasn't told???

How can there be a problem without a 'game' to test the mechanics?

Are you implying the devs are too daft to make the mechanics of being a small race compatible in combat to taller ones but still maintain their racial traits?

Not trying to come off as obtuse,I'm really not ( it was a well constructed post, just jumping the gun way too early), but I don't see how there is a "problem with Kypiq that needs fixed", as per your post, when we're not even in pre-alpha yet.

This post comes off as a "I'm in love with Kypiq, but not the balancing factors" of their race.

Solution: Play Neran. Hope this helps.

I enjoyed reading this! You're right Lord_Greystoke. But as of now, the only thing I can build my vision on is what the devs give us in terms of general tribes design, and I do think there is something inherently wrong/bad with the tribe design at the moment in terms of balance.

Just though I'd let my opinion out!

I want to create a Mokshin clan. The most appealing thing about the Kypiq for me is the promise of being a sneaky ninja. I don't have much to say about the construction side but I really liked your points about their combat abilities.

-"Remove the glass jaw malus;" So this makes us more susceptible to stuns and heavy impacts, which makes sense because our high agility makes us the fastest tribe in the game. So we're harder to hit but we can't take many hits. Here's a quote from Snipe in discord: - "Agility? It plays mostly into physical things: running, jumping, parkour, dodging, fighting, fishing, sewing, smithing, stealth, lockpicking, etc. Basically anywhere where fine motor control is necessary. It's not a damage stat in CoE, and it's not really aligned with specific skills (Well, except maybe slight of hand and acrobatics), but it plays into a lot of the stuff you might take for granted in an MMO, like the speed and ways you move." That being said it's all theory at the moment and there's no way of knowing if the effect of the stun is in proportion to our actual abilities affected by our unrivalled agility.

-"Remove the stamina reduction;" I completely agree, I've argued with people in the Kypiq discord before that just because we're not super beefy doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to sustain our movements for long periods of time. I think that with our small bodies, a small amount of strength (to a neran) should be more than enough for a tiny kypiq to be running around, dancing, climbing, sneaking or fighting without getting exhausted every 5 minutes because we "tire easily". This is tedious. -I suggest, if we can't have a normal stamina overall; at least give us normal stamina for our movement and limit the low stamina to the amount of hard melee swings or something.

-"Add fleeing options such as the ability to ride smaller animals;" Totally agree, Would love to see the ability to ride deer, wolves or goats. Personally hope there will be options like climbing rope with hook or other inventions we can create to manoeuvre our small nimble bodies in various directions.

-"Allow for faster tree climbing due to the fact that they live in trees;" Quote from caspian - "CaspianToday at 17:59 RE:The Kypiq. The earliest Kypiq were bigger than the modern ones. They were proto-nerans that sought refuge in the trees. They were bigger and taller than the Kypiq today, and likely climbed the trees. Over time, they have gotten smaller, weaker, and have come to rely on technology and their elevation into the trees as a natural form of defense.

Modern Kypiqs do not generally climb trees. That's more of a Janoa thing. They do use ladders, pulleys and other things to help them climb." This completely goes against the idea some parts of the kypiq design puts into your head; we're this amazingly agile, fast, stealthy tribe that can't even climb the trees we have uniquely evolved to live in. We "needn't much strength to scurry up a tree trunk" is stated in the tribe page so I have to say Im confused about the intended design of the kypiq in this regard. If we can't climb anything then my dreams of sneaking around on rooftops are done :/

-"Add smaller specific weapons to compensate for the larger weapons they can’t use." There are things like the opening shield and ironwood bark armour we have that we start with being tribe specific (unless we trade them or something) but hopefully we can invent some cool weapons too. However I think these could eventually be adapted to fit a Big unfortunately. I guess a remedy to that misbalance of Bigs having access to equipment and mounts we can NEVER access is to make our designs too complicated for Bigs to use well. For example; the mechanical Kypiq shield, can be opperated quickly and easily by an agile Kypiq but a clumsy Big might malfunction the shield too regularly to rely on it in battle and would be much more likely to opt for a (boring) shield for clumsy Bigs. The question of tribe specific weaponry is more potent for the Kypiq as we have the most unique fighting style (I presume). Our strengths; stealth, speed, parkour ect, but our glass jaw weakness ect prevent us from sustaining direct combat. Allot of our advertised skills are in alchemy and tinkering which would make me presume our weaponry would utilise chemicals and mechanics to compensate for our short comings. I would hypothesise that the weapons we create for ourselves would be too small for Bigs to use and hopefully Kypiq crafters won't sell all their inventions to Bigs but who knows?

Great post, I wrote this way too late so there's probably a bunch of errors but I need to sleep so I'll post this as is x

I was pretty sure the Wood that was sacred was the iron wood trees. Not all trees. If I am wrong, that would be very sad, that would mean that they would need to hire, or let neran or waerd do the tree cutting.

I've been saying there are these issues for the last few weeks, nice to see I am not alone. Now more than ever, we need this stuff addressed because this is our last chance to decide to play Kypiq at start/launch or not.

It sounds like the people applauding these ideas don't care about game balance. They just want to take the challenging parts of playing a Kypiq and completely remove them so there are no negatives to playing them. Every tribe has pluses and minuses to playing them. Ironwood trees grow extremely slowly - to the point that you can't harvest them and get mature trees back for centuries (from what I recall). So cutting them down all willy-nilly for your greedy purposes goes against what being a Kypiq is. If this doesn't suit you, don't play them.

I've said it in other threads... things that you see as issues aren't necessarily issues. We haven't even started alpha testing yet to see how things work in-engine. It's all theorycrafting at this point. That's fine and all - it helps keep the forums active - but being critical to the point of saying things must change before trying out the original ideas is not warranted, in my opinion. If you've just started paying attention to the game for the last few years and think you know more about the tribes and how they balance each other than the man who has been designing this for over a decade, maybe rethink things.