Kypiqs and food

No I do not want to talk about your best Kypiq recipes. This thread is not about Kypiqs as food, but food FOR Kypiqs. Okey? Okey.

I have been looking into this tribe for a while now, I and I do not really get how Kypiqs are supposed to feed themselves. Since they cannot digest meat (which probably can be bred out eventually), they have to leave on a vegan diet. But they also consider plants to have a spirit and therefore should not be killed. this leaves foraging as their only means of food gathering. If this is the case, the limits the forest has to offer is quite little. According to the "do not kill plants" their only food source will be nuts, berries and seeds and fruits, all of which are not really nutritious. Kypiqs are small, yes, but a healthy male will still need 800-1000 kcal a day. this is hard to get, if you cannot farm grain. an apple has about 70 kcal. I hope, I get how this works. But since the "one with nature" is a thing, farming even fruit trees and bushes would not fit into their culture. it would come close to slavery.

I don't really see an answer to this. I could imagine somthing like the Bosmer from Elder Scrolls who only eat meat for religious reasons and even cannibalize each other, but never touch a plant because of an old pact with the forest spirit. Because right now Kypiqs look like a race with no hunters and no agriculture.

Well why is this even a problem? The problem is population. Population drives everything: war, economy, technology. and if 10.000 brudvir invade their territory, they cannot defend themselves because the forest only supports about 5000 Kypiqs in total, only a fraction of them warriors.

Please dispel my concerns.

carnead Die Entdecker und Verteidiger Avagasts suchen DICH! Egal welcher Berufsstand in unserer Stadt ist für jeden platz! [Geselle dich zu uns!]

12/8/2018 12:11:59 PM #1

While this would be true in reallife, I cannot for the life of me see them implementing it like this. Not only is a constant gathering any fun, but it also makes (as you have stated) no sense in reality.

So I think they will simply tweek the balance in the Kypiqs favour. Meaning that they have special gathering methods (like shaking branches for extra nuts, stroking berry bushes for all lose fruit) which, while not really realistic, would mean that they can have about the same amount of food ready.

Balancing and fun should always be above hyperrealism.

But I do not know this and would also be quite interested in what others have to say about this.

12/8/2018 12:17:52 PM #2

I'm a Brudvir, and I won't attack... one enemy less.

I think, picking fruits will not be seen as slavery, neither housing by using a tree... But your question is good. And I was just in doubt, what to take on my travels through the Kypiq-forest.

House Pyrros

12/8/2018 2:38:10 PM #3

Remember that it has been stated many times before that not all our earthly rules apply in Elyria.

We see many external physical adaptations that have evolved with each tribe.

It would not be too big a stretch that there have also been internal adaptations as well.

If I remember correctly, it is because of a specific enzyme or component in a particular fish they alone consume, that give the Yoru their special adaptations to the extreme cold environment they live in

Could the Kypiq also possess some special type of "Kypiq Kale?"

Something that is included in the leaves they do consume, that works in a similar way for them, but not for the Brudvir or Nerans that may also eat it?

Another adaptation that may exist in Elyria, and not in our world, is in regards to the caloric intakes and outputs you are suggesting.

Perhaps the Kypiqs unique physiology processes these same nutrients in a more efficient manner than ours, or their fellow Elyrians, thus requiring a lower intake amount for the same desired output?

An apple a day just keeps our doctors away...

Could it also power a Kypiq for a whole workday?

We Are The Many... We Are The One... We Are THE WAERD !!!

12/8/2018 3:38:10 PM #4

It's true, some tribes and biomes will support many fewer players. If you want an army of 10,000 play a neran. Tribes like the kypiq or yoru or brudvir will have far lower populations, but the harshness of their biome (be it weather or dangerous beasts) will be what aids them against the more numerous attackers. That army of 10000 will starve to death on the tundra without a large supply line. It will be torn apart by alpha predators at night in the kypiq forest if they remain on the ground. They'll die of dehydration in the desert. Etc....

12/8/2018 3:55:31 PM #5

Kypiq also eat mushroom and honey according to Caspian.

Our bodies are adapted to our diet as we have eat this way for such a long time and we probably eat lots during the day or something anyway.

12/8/2018 4:37:04 PM #6

There are tons of things to eat without killing the "parent" plant. As you stated, nuts, seeds, fruits are options. Also, a lot of veggies can be harvested without affecting the plant.

Beans are a good source of protein. When you get into soy beans, you have a lot of options. You can make soy milk and tofu, for example.

I'm curious to know how Kypiq feel about yeast though. Will they only eat unleavened breads?

12/8/2018 7:05:22 PM #7

okey. I did not consider mushrooms. fair point. But no, I think, if the universe of elyira does not have different physics you would need about the same amount of energy. The problem I see most by now is, that fruits and veggies in general have a rather low caloric density. that means you need to eat a lot of stuff to get the energy you need. and much stuff means much volumes, which means bigger bellies which in turn means...smaller people? does not sound right. so there will be a need for heavy high caloric foods.

the thing is, as stated earlier and I have seen no one explain this to me, how you can harvest anything when all plants are considered sentient. and how can you even cultivate anything? Think of the matrix and the human farms. isn't that what the kypiqs see in a crop field? well, maybe not quite that hardcore but similar. how does both their religion and their economy go together?

carnead Die Entdecker und Verteidiger Avagasts suchen DICH! Egal welcher Berufsstand in unserer Stadt ist für jeden platz! [Geselle dich zu uns!]

12/8/2018 7:40:26 PM #8

Well, the Kypiq do appear to kill some plants, as seen in SBS own story “..Tidewater was as far as he’d ever come to hawk the straw the family sold.” ( Here the main character, a Kypiq, has an uncle who is a straw farmer. So not only do they use dead plant parts but also grow grains and harvest them.

But correct me if I missinterpret this. :D


12/8/2018 8:01:15 PM #9

They also use ironwood trees if one happens to die of old age and fall too (think it was stated in a Q&A).

They will use plant parts, but not directly kill the plant is the impression I get on it. Why waste it when it is already dead and it's soul has left the vessel.

I think the exception is animal flesh after the animal has died. They probably evolved this way though because if an animal dies, it is diseased, was killed, or found a hole somewhere to die of old age. None of which makes it suitable food, so the utilitarian thought process they have with plants doesn't really apply to corpses of animals.

12/8/2018 9:50:44 PM #10

Well, let's look at nutritional density from a nut, since they're among the most substantial of the "acceptable" Kypiq foodstuffs:

Per it appears that 1 Acre of almond cultivation produces roughly 2250 lbs (1020 kg) of shelled almonds/year. From the same source, 100g of almonds accounts for 579 kcal. to give an adult male Kypiq a generous ration of 200g of almonds daily leads to a single acre feeding 14 men/year. (Only accounting for raw calorie count here)

Meanwhile, per the numbers at a Duchy has over 100,000 acres of available land, to a population of less than 1400.

Now, this is somewhat ideal circumstances here, but the numbers listed there would present one tenth of a percent of a duchy's land devoted to hard core agriculture does more than enough to feed the duchy's population. Presumably, the natural density of fruit-and-seed-bearing flora is such that the population gets along well enough on its own without the need for hardcore agriculture.

I'm not seeing where that "slavery" analog comes from. There's a large gap between "filled with spirit" and "sentient", and a larger gap still between "growing an orchard" and "practicing slavery". Besides, what of Kypiq use of trained animals? "Domestication" and "slavery" are a far cry from each other (barring the beliefs of certain animal rights groups). It is a relationship of trust - I protect and care for you, to ensure that you grow up healthy, and in return you aid me in my endeavors as you are best suited with your abilities.

On the subject of 10,000 Brudvir, the Brudvir have it even worse as far as foodstuffs go, to the point where their write-up specifically notes their tendency toward smaller settlements. Also, they're more likely to have a 3,000+ kcal diet.

It is worth considering that kypiq digestion, being particularly suited toward eating plantstuffs, is particularly suited toward efficient extraction of nutrients. It is important to note that the caloric content of fruits and vegetables is relatively low for humans because those fruits and veggies are packed with "dietary fiber" - indigestible materials that simply pass through the human digestion system. To a kypiq, much of that dietary fiber could be good healthy nutritive material.

Yeast would be a philosophical question for the Faedin to discuss once they have a handle on microbiology. At the tech level in question, leavening is simply something that happens to bread under the proper conditions.

The straw farm actually brings up an important point: grains are grasses. As anyone who's maintained a lawn can tell you, cutting the upper portions of a grass in no way kills the plant, nor does it hinder the growth.

Given all the above, I feel it safe to say that there's plenty the Kypiq can do to sustain a very large healthy population without any need to bend the tenets of their faith.

12/9/2018 7:58:29 AM #11

Most grains in use by humans are from annual grasses. The plants bearing them could reasonably be considered to have died after bearing the grain. Hence the harvesting of straw for sale.

Similarly fruits are fair "game", since picking them in no way harms the plant, which would eventually drop them anyway. Vegetables, on the other hand, are often the vital parts of living plants, and would probably be forbidden.

Tree sap is a possible staple, since tapping limited amounts of it does not harm the plant. Perhaps there are some trees that ooze sap naturally.

Etc., etc.

12/9/2018 3:12:24 PM #12

So if they do use sap, is what we are looking at then a mob of kids all jacked up on sugar?

As any parent can tell you, that would be a very formidable foe that would test your endurance and patience to the limit...until they crash and need a nap.

Now I wonder if they also have "kypiq sticks?"

We Are The Many... We Are The One... We Are THE WAERD !!!

12/9/2018 5:08:05 PM #13

No one's directly mentioned it yet, but I'm presuming there's the Elyrian equivalent of rice. Rice is a staple in the S E Asian countries on Earth. It is filling, provides great nutrition and - if necessary and with skilled timing - can be harvested by shaking. It is also pretty easy to grow; rivers can be utilized to create paddy fields...though maybe they'd be 'Kypiq Plains' in Elyria? Rice has several different forms (sticky, long-grain, 'mochi' or whatever) and makes great sake! (Boy do I know! - Kampai!)

Physician, Alchemist & Herbalist to the Duchy of Anor, Al-Khezam - Selene (EU) Server

12/10/2018 3:08:57 AM #14

I don't know that I would classify fruit, nuts, and seeds, as not very nutritious. 1/4 cup of nuts is about 180 calories, some protein and fat. If a kypiq only needs 1000 calories a day, they're already 1/5 of the way there.

Like the above posters implied, maybe the kypiqs don't kill the plants they harvest, but fruit and nut trees can be harvested without hurting the plant. We used to have an orchard of pecan trees, and literally at a certain point in the year the food just starts dropping to the group for easy picking. I'm lying, harvesting pecans is actually a huge pain in the ass, but you get my point.

Also, just because humans go nuts on sugar doesn't mean Kypiqs would. Plenty of animal species eat fruit based diets on earth. Maybe Kypiqs need higher levels of sugar and are well adapted to be fruititarians.

12/10/2018 6:42:51 AM #15

Posted By kajoreh at 07:12 AM - Sun Dec 09 2018

So if they do use sap, is what we are looking at then a mob of kids all jacked up on sugar?

As any parent can tell you, that would be a very formidable foe that would test your endurance and patience to the limit...until they crash and need a nap.

Now I wonder if they also have "kypiq sticks?"

@Strix mentioned honey as a common food. It's much more concentrated in sugar than sap generally is. I'm thinking of sap as evaporated to increase its sugar concentration. So either way, there is a potential for sugar jacking.

Most of their food supply would probably come from other staples, however. Nuts and seeds make a lot of sense because they can be stored for a fairly long time. Maybe there are other things that provide a source of bulk, like sloughed tree bark.

I'm entirely speculating. It's not really worthwhile remembering all this, except for the fun of it.