Good read
This threads a salt mine and I love it
On cultural Flexibility
As most of you are aware, I am keenly interested in maintaining the central tenets of the kypiq culture (Faedin religion, Cunning as measure of social standing, and education being the cornerstone of the kingdom) in whatever kingdom they fall into.
However, cultures shift and change overtime and we as players will begin changing the culture in exposition. The SBS team has hinted at how this could happen, but never has it been said that it will be quick, and that overt changes are taboo that could lead to loss of position and power.
This dynamic causes a large difference between Ordered Candidates and Chaotic Candidates. (Using terminology from my previous post)
Ordered Candidates will likely move towards a muted inclusive culture likely divergent from the starting position, as they accommodate more diverse tribal and player cultures. A melting pot if you would.
Chaotic Candidates have their own vision and will push the kingdom (potentially violently) in a single direction. This will be met with significant resistance depending on how forcefully they go about it, but no matter the result will lead to a more distinct culture in the aftermath along with an entertaining story.
Violet's approach is admiral and tractable, if it goes well and the demands aren't to insane (kypiq barbecues) it will likely be livable, and gradually tend towards a happy medium. A generic melting pot, that I wouldn't mind living in.
Maulvorn's approach is unique and actually tractable. Depending on how its implemented, he could actually create a hybird of beliefs kind of like shindoism. Of course, if it fails it will fail in a spectacular fashion as it would be directly at odds with the casus belli system. Either way its an interesting story, thats worth seeing through.
More of the same or Something Different? Your choice.
Posted By Lunaus at 11:40 AM - Wed Nov 01 2017
Posted By Moonlynx at 12:27 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017
Here is my big problem with Maulvon and Nihz's campaigns. This kingdom will be the last pick on the server in all likelihood. It is very possible that it will be Kypiq or Waerd in nature as those seem to be the least popular tribes. Neither of these tribes are the stated religion of the specific tribes. You are not going to be able to force the NPCs to just suddenly change religion. It doesn't matter how many PCs you have, the NPCs will outnumber the PCs. Even if you try to force the change to the religion of choice, you are looking at generations before a change can occur. More than likely not, your NPCs will resist the change, very possibly with a show of force. Look how well that worked for England during the 17th-18th centuries. They had a civil war and a whole group of people who didn't like to be forced decided to go west forming the US.
Is there information on this backing this claim? We have Religion packs that can be purchased by Dukes and above (unless they changed it by IP) that you can select for a specific Religion in-game. I don't think Religion is in-bred and will never change, maybe they won't change at first but I don't think it's impossible to convert them.
Well, just what SBS has repeatedly stated. As I said, it will take GENERATIONS before there would be a change in the religion. Some of the tribes are more fanatic than others and I would guess that they would be harder to convert.
Countess of Tarnham
County Tarnham, Rhynelands Duchy, Vornair. Luna Server (NA-E)
@Grossschmied: Although many people did not like your interpretations of their information, I applaud your effort to cover these candidates and for sharing your perceptions. I may not agree with most of them but I know that these threads can take a lot of time and effort to create. I wish you the best on your endeavors, whatever they may be.
Posted By Arisilde at 1:31 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017
Posted By Lunaus at 11:40 AM - Wed Nov 01 2017
Posted By Moonlynx at 12:27 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017
Here is my big problem with Maulvon and Nihz's campaigns. This kingdom will be the last pick on the server in all likelihood. It is very possible that it will be Kypiq or Waerd in nature as those seem to be the least popular tribes. Neither of these tribes are the stated religion of the specific tribes. You are not going to be able to force the NPCs to just suddenly change religion. It doesn't matter how many PCs you have, the NPCs will outnumber the PCs. Even if you try to force the change to the religion of choice, you are looking at generations before a change can occur. More than likely not, your NPCs will resist the change, very possibly with a show of force. Look how well that worked for England during the 17th-18th centuries. They had a civil war and a whole group of people who didn't like to be forced decided to go west forming the US.
Is there information on this backing this claim? We have Religion packs that can be purchased by Dukes and above (unless they changed it by IP) that you can select for a specific Religion in-game. I don't think Religion is in-bred and will never change, maybe they won't change at first but I don't think it's impossible to convert them.
I think the difference here is she is saying you can't force them to suddenly change, and your example is a slow conversion. those are obviously not the same thing. You're both right. There is no way to force the NPCs to convert, as she said. you will however be able to try and slowly convert them, as you said. It has been discussed in Q&As on multiple occasions, and described as a slow process.
So, her argument has a lot of merit however. these kingdoms are talking about coming in and basic their government on a specific religion. So what happens when it takes a couple real world years to convert the populace? What does their kingdom look like in the interim? Their plans basically stall out. That's not a recipe for success. Immediately trying to buck the established system of whatever kingdom you get is just not a recipe for success. Building with what you are given, that is a recipe for success.
True, I didn't really see them as only focusing on a particular religion, we all know we can't pick the Kingdoms religion (so far) so I saw it as an end goal rather than right out the gate.
Posted By DevelopingStories at 7:04 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017
@Grossschmied: Although many people did not like your interpretations of their information, I applaud your effort to cover these candidates and for sharing your perceptions. I may not agree with most of them but I know that these threads can take a lot of time and effort to create. I wish you the best on your endeavors, whatever they may be.
I actually quite liked the critiques given to my campaign at least.
Posted By Grossschmied at 07:30 AM - Wed Nov 01 2017 @TheConcierge
What I meant by abuse under Contractual obligation that was, were I to contract a man with unfair terms that he had no choice but to accept would this be legal?
I suppose that may be theoretically possible, but choosing to accept the terms is still a choice that can be made, as far as we know there has been no mention of forcing someone to accept a contract. If there was some mechanic like that it would violate the principle of self-determination that we are pushing. Therefore if it was possible (perhaps with Forgery?) it would be a serious offense in our book which loops back around to enforcing legitimate contracts.
Now if your saying it may be possible that someone could be maneuvered such that if they wish to hold onto something they hold dear they may need to accept a "bad" deal? Possibly, but that will be true of any kingdom and in our case that feeds right back into our goals of allowing social mobility. You may need to be clever and successful to hold onto your position within our Kingdom.
Ultimately if there is some method of using contracts like this that borders more on abuse or mechanical loopholes we will reevaluate the rule and Laws surrounding Contracts to limit such abuse. Our goal with the Law system is to insure the average citizen with no civic aspirations should be entirely safe to live and do business within our Kingdom.
While I find the notion to be outlandish I'll admit it's grown more interesting to me the more thought I've put into it, please do continue to expand upon it.
I don't think we're as outlandish as most would assume at first glance. Our acceptance of deviant mechanics under limited circumstances is perhaps throwing people off a bit, but it is one of our bigger selling points so we do not want to sweep it under the rug.
In my opinion we're perhaps a more practical version of the anarchist or democratic/republic kingdom propositions. We want players in our theoretical kingdom to be free to pursue as much of the game as possible with the least amount of governmental control over their game-play while still providing a basic sense of security and contributing to a thriving Kingdom. Balancing those aspects may be difficult, but we think it will be very rewarding if we can accomplish it.
I'm glad to continue elaborating on any points or questions you, or anyone for that matter, may have. I'm sure if I talk long enough you'll all eventually come around to our way of thinking :-)
Posted By Maulvorn at 5:27 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017
Posted By DevelopingStories at 7:04 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017
@Grossschmied: Although many people did not like your interpretations of their information, I applaud your effort to cover these candidates and for sharing your perceptions. I may not agree with most of them but I know that these threads can take a lot of time and effort to create. I wish you the best on your endeavors, whatever they may be.
I actually quite liked the critiques given to my campaign at least.
Too. And we need.
Posted By Scheneighnay at 9:50 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017
Why haven't any of the candidates denounced the Kypiqs yet?
What are they hiding?
H-hiding? Kypiqs? Hiding kypiqs? No no, this isn't a kypiq in my pocket, it's just uh... it's a trophy. Yeah. Full honesty and disclosure here. Definitely not a cute lil-
I mean horrible. Horrible, horrible kypiq. Not one of those. Am I pandering right?
Most of these campaigns are idiocy ridden.
I'd vote mickdude just for the sheer lack of quality with the rest of the candidates.
Announcing my campaign and run for King. Please visit my topic for details of my platform and vision, and also for people to ask any questions.
I have envisaged a place in the High Council for someone of "the cloth". Whether that means a state religion that is enforced, or one of many religions, is going to be entirely up to the in-game political realms to determine.
I do not see my place as the King of a newly forming Kingdom to impose that across the playerbase from the onset. Rather, I see it as an opportunity to open that aspect of gameplay up to the players within the Kingdom to influence through their own machinations and/or charisma.
If a given religion can build and then wield such influence to convince the Conclave of Lords to make it a state religion, then it would likely become one. Whether a religion manages to become an official religion whilst religious freedom is permitted, or whether it is somehow reached the status of being roleplayed as the one and only religion, is entirely in the ballpark of players like you to convince the King.