COMMUNITY - FORUMS - LUNA DOMAINS
Free Kingdom of Elyria; Campaign Critiques

So to preface this post I’d like to state that this critique is done in the interest of making each candidate expand upon their prior posts, to state what their policy will be, both foreign and state, and to force them to be specific. I, as a community outsider, generally feel that I am in the best position to do so, as I have not associated directly with any of the communities that have popped up around kingdoms, or personalities. This critique is meant to be constructive but pragmatic, I will not sugarcoat any statements. I will update this post as time goes on.

Maulvorn

  • Hyperfocused on Religion, wants to give the Vittori church actual power, a mistake that was made by the HRE, and led to the corruption of the Emperor elections Edit: Plans direct oversight of the church elements within the kingdom if I'm understanding what he's said correctly.

  • No real plan of action; he's stated his actions all depend upon his competitors when he sits them down and counsels them in a post victory scenario, what would he do in a loss scenario? Edit: Plans to integrate the church into the Hierarchy of the kingdom, as well as centralize all the religious population into a single area, the first part sounds reasonable and feasible however I've asked him to expand upon the second and explain how he plans to account for a mass migration to that scale.

  • No plans for foreign kingdoms; to expand upon this, it's the same issue as not having a plan of action, he's TOO willing to work with others, this is an overall negative on a political stage, Diplomats are meant to make deals and work with other kingdoms, a king is meant to focus on his own people Edit: Since this he has taken the stance that he'd rather them come to him for diplomatic matters, and that he will focus on state affairs, in response I've said that that's one pole to another, and he needs a happy medium for Diplomatic matters.
  • Willing to give too much freedom to Dukes; Maulvorn is a different kind of candidate with different ideas on how he should rule compared to the other competitors, while this should be to his benefit, he hasn't mentioned how he will reign in the Dukes of his potential nation, especially when a quarter of those who are in the running for king plan on a entirely different socio-economic structure Edit: He addressed this in saying he only cares for the Dukes to follow 3 main policies and they're fine in his book, 1: To uphold the values of the faith, to build churches and convert the non-believer, 2: Follow all established Common law(This is a given in my opinion and a redundant statement), and finally 3: To pay the taxes that he levies. He further included that he plans to encourage tithing. Concept but no substance, no policy listed or talked about beyond vague mentions of counseling the dukes and foreign kings.

Mickdude

  • "Anything mandatory violates a player's ability to pick for himself"
  • Advocates for An-Cap in an era of Gods and Kings.
  • "My throne is just a figurehead"

These three points sum it up quite well, he would be a King without Kingdom.

Chesire

  • "I will delegate anything I am not good at down to another" In other words what every noble does
  • "I'd rather focus on building a strong infrastructure to support and protect those who choose to live in 'the misfit lands'" It doesn't matter if one is the aggressor or not in war, it matters if one wins or not
  • "I like to put individuals where they excel most" This won't attract anyone, especially in a kingdom where their work won't be recognized as more important than the man who shovels horse droppings off the street
  • Wants to function on a different Socio-economic system compared to the rest of the world, this would negatively affect trade and the value of our currency

Were it not to function a separate socio-economic system it wouldn't be so....far fetched, however as they have stated it, it would be a negative to the kingdom and its wellbeing

The "Deviant Kingdom Campaign"

  • "We want to allow all forms of deviancy" Literally creating a crusade target for all Vittori Edit: While I still think this a major point to avoid, they've stated they care not for a Casus Belli
  • "Contract enforcement is our first priority" A kingdom's first priority should be defense of its citizens and ensuring their well being Edit: They believe that under contractual law the rights of each Citizen will be protected, I personally disagree and think that under contractual law, abuse will be a common happening, still waiting upon further comment.
  • "Random murder in the streets isn't particularly wanted or generally useful" But it's still allowed????? Edit: This has since been expanded upon about and clarified to be illegal unless contracted. Random ganking is not legal.
  • "...allow us to curb the worst aspects of deviant behavior and channel what's left into productive directions." Originally called this a contradictory statement to prior policy mentions. Edit: Clarified to have meant random ganking and forgery, while those do account for some of the worst aspects of deviant behavior, contracted murder is still legal, as well as every other form of Deviancy to my knowledge.

NiHZ

  • Hyperfocused on Religion like Maulvorn, same critique is applicable, just sub out Vittori for Qindred
  • Main law of freedom, this, while in theory works, also contradicts the nature of a Ecclesiocracy or church rule, which is to spread the religion upon which it was founded; in a Theocracy the kingdom is meant to function on the divine law of god, while this kingdom is not a Theocracy but rather an Ecclesiocracy it works on a principle that is near exactly the same, however instead of ruling by divine law, it is ruled by the authority of the church. Taking this into consideration it is impossible for this Kingdom to promise true religious freedom to all citizens within it.
  • Only specific plans lay in having "A healing arm to provide food and supplies, and a sword arm..."

I would like to hear more specifics from this one, as I think it's a solid concept, however it's lacking in substance on the things that matter the most(Foreign Policy, State Governing policy)

Phyllain

  • A mouthpiece of Kairos; were they not centered in Kairos I'd think differently perhaps, though as an outsider with no information on Kairos and its politics, this point can be ignored
  • Stated no real views in their bid for king
  • Wants to "Avenge the defeat of the Mad King"
  • Refers to the kingdom as "Free for the taking"
  • Worth noting that Kab is of Xeilias' fold, while advocating a kingdom built upon the principle of Warmongering

Edit: Retagged as Phyllain, Kab will be moved to a separate bid as his views are expanded upon.

Concept is there, no substance, wants to avenge a king overthrown and called "The mad king" really gets the ole' noggin joggin.

Eadward

  • Elective Monarchy; has the potential to be good, though it largely depends upon everyone being upright and incorruptible, regardless I like the idea +1
  • "The kingdom will be viewed as a target" filled with confidence with this one
  • "....I will be loyal to the cause of independence from foreign powers" Isn't this a given?
  • This was followed by appeals to the community of "1/2 of my kids every generation will be open to players", this, in theory, gives two players every generation the chance to contest the heir to the throne upon the death of the current Monarch, this is a horrible idea

The concept is there, the substance is lacking, the lack of substance is attempted to be made up for by an appeal to players through them having a "chance" at being in his family and having a claim to the throne.

AndrewMav

  • Wants a community rather than a Kingdom, a King should focus on his Kingdom rather than creating a community in which his subjects may reside
  • Wants anyone to be able to join in at any time, possible negative due to foreign agents or other malicious elements
  • Mentions no specifics about policy
  • Once again just brimming with confidence "....my hope is the kingdom can become something real not just a 'free' show."

Mentions no specific policy for anything, the concept is there, however the substance is lacking.

CommodoreIsDef

  • Views Centralization as impossible(this is applicable to all candidates prior, however only this one mentions it as more than a passing comment)
  • "....stories are bred in conflict and diversity." This is spot on and I applaud you for this point +1
  • Kingdom will be a confederation of Dukes with large amounts of autonomy; works great in theory but it would require policing of the Dukes to keep them in line
  • "King's role will be two fold.....", this can be summed up as "The king will be a king"
  • Wants to gear towards exploration and trade, while maintaining neutrality to other nations; solid work in having a plan stated in the forum post, now add detailing to your other plans
  • States that he won't allow military matters to be neglected, expanding upon this by stating each Duke would have to maintain a set amount of soldiers, this should be expanded upon with specifics.

Overall of the announced Candidates, this one has made his plans the most clear, has a solid foreign policy hammered out, and a standard to hold each duke to, though needs more specifics to further improve

SirApetus

  • "Will focus on Science....Military will be a major aspect as well" Promises this with no clear specifics
  • Mentions that he will maintain basic law as is expected of a King
  • "We are a society based upon rational thinking and will try our best to avoid conflict when it is deemed unnecessary" +1 for having an established foreign policy, now expand upon and it make it specific.
  • "We will lend out our technologies to assist others" In a happy-go-lucky world this is perfect, however in reality this is a plan that can go very very wrong
  • "We will make sure our allies and other kingdoms....are not without justice." Wants to play world police is what I'm interpreting this as

Desdark

  • Wants a republic/City state, in an age of Feudalism and Kingdoms this in itself is a casus belli for them to declare, so as to prevent revolutionary thinking.
  • "Give me freedom or death", should be a more inspirational quote rather than one of martyrdom, but that's an opinion
  • Radical ideas that wouldn't be accepted by other kingdoms, meaning making an enemy out of all other nations for existing

Overall a Republic could work, though his revolutionary style attitude is going to create a problem with other nations, and within the kingdom itself, if he himself is not the king, there is after all a reason republican revolutionaries were historically put down

VioletWinterBorne

  • Begins with appeal to the community at large, mostly vague promises of everyone being "able to belong"
  • The small amount of policy listed is vague at best ex: "I want to make sure that we have the best defense that can merge into the best offense"
  • "The Kingdom will be drama free" this is an impossibility, as drama arises from clashing opinions, and in any kingdom you are certain to have people with differing opinions in high up positions, unless of course you just want yes men.
  • "I don't want any discrimination" is this not a given? I assumed it goes unsaid that nobody wants any discrimination?
  • (State focus listed in Q&A instead of announcement post...) Would be more medical focused, with secondary focuses of Trade and 'Research', needs more detail.
  • "Each duchy should fill a particular role" Encourages dependency on each other rather than self sufficiency

Mentioned no specific state policy beyond a state focus while attempting appeals at the community by mentioning things that normally go unsaid, such as wanting to be inclusive of all races/sexualitys/etc, while most others lacked substance and had a concept, this bid felt almost like it lacked a mix of both, the concept of this kingdom that was posted, can be summed up as ‘No drama, we’re focusing on medicine trade and ‘research’, also everyone is welcome!”, there’s just no meat to it.

LunaGore

  • "Drama, Conflict, and headbutting is inevitable...." How do you intend to solve this though?
  • "I openly welcome deviants of all arts.....we will not enable you but our Queen will reward you for your deeds" How will you manage this? In the case of a murder how would you be able to differentiate between the act of a deviant that you've welcomed, and a random killer?
  • "We focus largely on uncovering, refining, and perfecting each blueprint that develops the infrastructure and backbone of our everlasting kingdom" But how? Lacks specifics.

Needs meat, not quite bare bones though, Concept is there but substance is lacking.

Discontinued until work slows down as of 11/15/17.


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11/1/2017 6:00:22 PM #46

Good read

This threads a salt mine and I love it


11/1/2017 6:03:53 PM #47

On cultural Flexibility

As most of you are aware, I am keenly interested in maintaining the central tenets of the kypiq culture (Faedin religion, Cunning as measure of social standing, and education being the cornerstone of the kingdom) in whatever kingdom they fall into.

However, cultures shift and change overtime and we as players will begin changing the culture in exposition. The SBS team has hinted at how this could happen, but never has it been said that it will be quick, and that overt changes are taboo that could lead to loss of position and power.

This dynamic causes a large difference between Ordered Candidates and Chaotic Candidates. (Using terminology from my previous post)

Ordered Candidates will likely move towards a muted inclusive culture likely divergent from the starting position, as they accommodate more diverse tribal and player cultures. A melting pot if you would.

Chaotic Candidates have their own vision and will push the kingdom (potentially violently) in a single direction. This will be met with significant resistance depending on how forcefully they go about it, but no matter the result will lead to a more distinct culture in the aftermath along with an entertaining story.

Violet's approach is admiral and tractable, if it goes well and the demands aren't to insane (kypiq barbecues) it will likely be livable, and gradually tend towards a happy medium. A generic melting pot, that I wouldn't mind living in.

Maulvorn's approach is unique and actually tractable. Depending on how its implemented, he could actually create a hybird of beliefs kind of like shindoism. Of course, if it fails it will fail in a spectacular fashion as it would be directly at odds with the casus belli system. Either way its an interesting story, thats worth seeing through.

More of the same or Something Different? Your choice.


11/1/2017 6:34:00 PM #48

Posted By Lunaus at 11:40 AM - Wed Nov 01 2017

Posted By Moonlynx at 12:27 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017

Here is my big problem with Maulvon and Nihz's campaigns. This kingdom will be the last pick on the server in all likelihood. It is very possible that it will be Kypiq or Waerd in nature as those seem to be the least popular tribes. Neither of these tribes are the stated religion of the specific tribes. You are not going to be able to force the NPCs to just suddenly change religion. It doesn't matter how many PCs you have, the NPCs will outnumber the PCs. Even if you try to force the change to the religion of choice, you are looking at generations before a change can occur. More than likely not, your NPCs will resist the change, very possibly with a show of force. Look how well that worked for England during the 17th-18th centuries. They had a civil war and a whole group of people who didn't like to be forced decided to go west forming the US.

Is there information on this backing this claim? We have Religion packs that can be purchased by Dukes and above (unless they changed it by IP) that you can select for a specific Religion in-game. I don't think Religion is in-bred and will never change, maybe they won't change at first but I don't think it's impossible to convert them.

Well, just what SBS has repeatedly stated. As I said, it will take GENERATIONS before there would be a change in the religion. Some of the tribes are more fanatic than others and I would guess that they would be harder to convert.


Countess of Tarnham

County Tarnham, Rhynelands Duchy, Vornair. Luna Server (NA-E)

11/1/2017 7:04:37 PM #49

@Grossschmied: Although many people did not like your interpretations of their information, I applaud your effort to cover these candidates and for sharing your perceptions. I may not agree with most of them but I know that these threads can take a lot of time and effort to create. I wish you the best on your endeavors, whatever they may be.


11/1/2017 7:26:10 PM #50

Posted By Arisilde at 1:31 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017

Posted By Lunaus at 11:40 AM - Wed Nov 01 2017

Posted By Moonlynx at 12:27 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017

Here is my big problem with Maulvon and Nihz's campaigns. This kingdom will be the last pick on the server in all likelihood. It is very possible that it will be Kypiq or Waerd in nature as those seem to be the least popular tribes. Neither of these tribes are the stated religion of the specific tribes. You are not going to be able to force the NPCs to just suddenly change religion. It doesn't matter how many PCs you have, the NPCs will outnumber the PCs. Even if you try to force the change to the religion of choice, you are looking at generations before a change can occur. More than likely not, your NPCs will resist the change, very possibly with a show of force. Look how well that worked for England during the 17th-18th centuries. They had a civil war and a whole group of people who didn't like to be forced decided to go west forming the US.

Is there information on this backing this claim? We have Religion packs that can be purchased by Dukes and above (unless they changed it by IP) that you can select for a specific Religion in-game. I don't think Religion is in-bred and will never change, maybe they won't change at first but I don't think it's impossible to convert them.

I think the difference here is she is saying you can't force them to suddenly change, and your example is a slow conversion. those are obviously not the same thing. You're both right. There is no way to force the NPCs to convert, as she said. you will however be able to try and slowly convert them, as you said. It has been discussed in Q&As on multiple occasions, and described as a slow process.

So, her argument has a lot of merit however. these kingdoms are talking about coming in and basic their government on a specific religion. So what happens when it takes a couple real world years to convert the populace? What does their kingdom look like in the interim? Their plans basically stall out. That's not a recipe for success. Immediately trying to buck the established system of whatever kingdom you get is just not a recipe for success. Building with what you are given, that is a recipe for success.

True, I didn't really see them as only focusing on a particular religion, we all know we can't pick the Kingdoms religion (so far) so I saw it as an end goal rather than right out the gate.

11/1/2017 7:27:30 PM #51

Posted By DevelopingStories at 7:04 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017

@Grossschmied: Although many people did not like your interpretations of their information, I applaud your effort to cover these candidates and for sharing your perceptions. I may not agree with most of them but I know that these threads can take a lot of time and effort to create. I wish you the best on your endeavors, whatever they may be.

I actually quite liked the critiques given to my campaign at least.


11/1/2017 8:20:48 PM #52

Posted By Grossschmied at 07:30 AM - Wed Nov 01 2017 @TheConcierge

What I meant by abuse under Contractual obligation that was, were I to contract a man with unfair terms that he had no choice but to accept would this be legal?

I suppose that may be theoretically possible, but choosing to accept the terms is still a choice that can be made, as far as we know there has been no mention of forcing someone to accept a contract. If there was some mechanic like that it would violate the principle of self-determination that we are pushing. Therefore if it was possible (perhaps with Forgery?) it would be a serious offense in our book which loops back around to enforcing legitimate contracts.

Now if your saying it may be possible that someone could be maneuvered such that if they wish to hold onto something they hold dear they may need to accept a "bad" deal? Possibly, but that will be true of any kingdom and in our case that feeds right back into our goals of allowing social mobility. You may need to be clever and successful to hold onto your position within our Kingdom.

Ultimately if there is some method of using contracts like this that borders more on abuse or mechanical loopholes we will reevaluate the rule and Laws surrounding Contracts to limit such abuse. Our goal with the Law system is to insure the average citizen with no civic aspirations should be entirely safe to live and do business within our Kingdom.

While I find the notion to be outlandish I'll admit it's grown more interesting to me the more thought I've put into it, please do continue to expand upon it.

I don't think we're as outlandish as most would assume at first glance. Our acceptance of deviant mechanics under limited circumstances is perhaps throwing people off a bit, but it is one of our bigger selling points so we do not want to sweep it under the rug.

In my opinion we're perhaps a more practical version of the anarchist or democratic/republic kingdom propositions. We want players in our theoretical kingdom to be free to pursue as much of the game as possible with the least amount of governmental control over their game-play while still providing a basic sense of security and contributing to a thriving Kingdom. Balancing those aspects may be difficult, but we think it will be very rewarding if we can accomplish it.

I'm glad to continue elaborating on any points or questions you, or anyone for that matter, may have. I'm sure if I talk long enough you'll all eventually come around to our way of thinking :-)


11/1/2017 8:30:27 PM #53

Posted By Maulvorn at 5:27 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017

Posted By DevelopingStories at 7:04 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017

@Grossschmied: Although many people did not like your interpretations of their information, I applaud your effort to cover these candidates and for sharing your perceptions. I may not agree with most of them but I know that these threads can take a lot of time and effort to create. I wish you the best on your endeavors, whatever they may be.

I actually quite liked the critiques given to my campaign at least.

Too. And we need.

11/2/2017 2:47:03 AM #54

I offer my views on Foreign Relations for everyone's consideration.


11/2/2017 3:50:24 AM #55

Why haven't any of the candidates denounced the Kypiqs yet?

What are they hiding?


11/2/2017 6:26:51 AM #56

Posted By Scheneighnay at 9:50 PM - Wed Nov 01 2017

Why haven't any of the candidates denounced the Kypiqs yet?

What are they hiding?

H-hiding? Kypiqs? Hiding kypiqs? No no, this isn't a kypiq in my pocket, it's just uh... it's a trophy. Yeah. Full honesty and disclosure here. Definitely not a cute lil-

I mean horrible. Horrible, horrible kypiq. Not one of those. Am I pandering right?


11/2/2017 10:30:07 AM #57

Most of these campaigns are idiocy ridden.

I'd vote mickdude just for the sheer lack of quality with the rest of the candidates.


11/2/2017 11:32:26 AM #58

Announcing my campaign and run for King. Please visit my topic for details of my platform and vision, and also for people to ask any questions.

The Official Campaign for King Seele I


Lord Maximillian Seele, Duke of Aravier

11/2/2017 11:54:10 AM #59

Would you support a State religion and enforce that?


11/2/2017 12:22:53 PM #60

I have envisaged a place in the High Council for someone of "the cloth". Whether that means a state religion that is enforced, or one of many religions, is going to be entirely up to the in-game political realms to determine.

I do not see my place as the King of a newly forming Kingdom to impose that across the playerbase from the onset. Rather, I see it as an opportunity to open that aspect of gameplay up to the players within the Kingdom to influence through their own machinations and/or charisma.

If a given religion can build and then wield such influence to convince the Conclave of Lords to make it a state religion, then it would likely become one. Whether a religion manages to become an official religion whilst religious freedom is permitted, or whether it is somehow reached the status of being roleplayed as the one and only religion, is entirely in the ballpark of players like you to convince the King.


Lord Maximillian Seele, Duke of Aravier

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