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Discussion - Schools, Academies, and Research

Schools, Academies, and Research

I'd love to get some conversations going on schools, academies, and research from the player base (and Devs if they want to join in). I'm sure I'm missing a few things, but below is a list I've compiled of things we know.


General Overview

These are organizations dedicated to the furthering of education, research, and technology. Their org structure consists of some members of the organization who pay to be members (to receive training and to gain access to the school's resources) while other members of the organization are paid to be a part of it (as trainers and researchers). Their funding comes from a combination of their paying members and grants from the Kingdom, Duchy, County, or Settlement they reside in.

The main advantage to being a part of a school is that they offer increased and rapid opportunity for learning. This comes in the form of consolidated access to skill trainers, and also access to specialized research tools. And, as new technology is discovered, all students immediately gain access to the new knowledge. Because their primary benefits come from having a larger number of members in a single location, few schools want to create multiple locations, preferring to increase in size and scope at a single site or campus.

Because knowledge is power, and people are encouraged to focus their skill development on one set of skills at a time, characters (ie. identities) are restricted to enrollment in one school at a time.

taken from CoE Discord Soul Chamber - 12/28/17 - Organizations

Skill Tiers

  1. Novice (0-29%) - 100% population will achieve
  2. Apprentice (30-39%) - 70% population
  3. Journeyman (40-49%) - 60% population
  4. Expert (50-59%) - 50% population
  5. Artisan (60-69%) - 40% population
  6. Renowned (70-79%) - 30% population
  7. Master (80-89%) - 20% population
  8. Grandmaster (90-99%) - 10% population
  9. Legendary (100%) - 1% population

Ways to Learn

All skills in CoE require a minimum amount of training in order to perform. Attempting a skill with a skill rating of 0% will always result in failure. To attempt a skill for the first time it'll be necessary to first receive training. There are a number of ways and places in which to receive training.

  1. Books - Can take you up to Apprentice, beyond that need rare texts.
  2. Observation - Being near someone performing a skill enough times (not beyond Apprentice & requires skill above 0%)
  3. Practice- Can be used as OPC but not beyond Journeyman (requires skill above 0%)
  4. Teaching - This is generally an interactive process requiring both people to be online, however, sufficiently skilled characters can teach others via their OPC. In addition, they often say the best way to learn is to teach, and while that’s not 100% true here, teachers do develop their skills while teaching, in the same way they did before as the student.
  5. Once Expert rank - You can choose to spend additional resources each time you craft the item to study some aspect of it in order to solve a problem. These can be things like making a blade stronger, armor lighter or more flexible, or livestock live longer. It can also be problems such as adding reflection to the surface of glass.

Researching

  • Your percent chance of solving a specific problem is based on the amount of research you, and others, have contributed to solving the problem. Some problems require more research than others and you won’t know how much research is required or how far along you are. In this way, research may feel a bit random, but it’s not. The more research you pour into something, the more likely are to discover something. When first crafting a new item you’re invariably focused first and foremost on making sure you’re able to create the item at a passable quality. However, after you’ve attained the level of Expert for that specific item you’re sufficiently capable of making the item that you can instead optimize for either advanced knowledge or faster production.
  • Beginning at Expert level a slider will appear on your crafting UI which begins in the middle with "Quality," and then extends to the left and right toward two different values. To the left is "Research", and to the right is "Production". Where you put the value of that slider affects many different aspects of the particular crafting or material processing you're about to do. It effects:

Whether or not you have the potential to discover something

How much fatigue you have after crafting an item

The cost of performing the crafting or processing in terms of resources.

How severe the risk of failure

  • Move the slider more to the left and you’ll have a higher chance to discover something. Move the slider to the right and you’ll suffer less fatigue from the crafting process and will be able to push out more items more quickly.
  • Initially, you may just be risking the loss of materials and perhaps the destruction of your tools, but by moving the slider out further you risk the loss of your building, personal injury, and maybe even death.
  • Schools often have crafting stations which allow for safer research while guilds may have versions that allow for safer mass-production. As well, if you do research as part of a guild or school, your ability to discover something is based not only on the time you've spent in research, but also the time everyone else in your guild or school has spent in research. This can result in dramatically increased chance of discovery.
  • There is a trade-off, however. If you perform research on the equipment of an organization, such as a Guild or School, you're implicitly agreeing to share all discoveries you make with the institution.
  • There is some amount of meta-game thinking allowed. We want players who understand the relationship between certain materials, the components they make, and the final product to play a role. If I, as a player, know how to construct a telescope, I should be able to use that information when guiding what I research to eventually lead to the discovery of a telescope.

Research Triggers

  • Event-Driven: You may have the option to research new technology based on changing world state such as the advancement of the story or going to war with another kingdom.
  • Skill & Mastery-Driven: If you get specific skills to a certain mastery, the synergy between the different skills may provide you with additional research opportunities. For example, achieving mastery in certain carpentry and tailoring skills may provide you the opportunity to research interesting new technologies.
  • Resource-Driven: Having multiple resources in your inventory that can be combined together in new and unique ways can often provide you the ability to do research. For example, if you’ve got copper and tin ore in your inventory and attempt to make a copper bar, you may be able to research bronze.
  • Location-Driven: Some technologies require characters to be in specific locations in order to unlock specific technologies. This makes sense intuitively. After all, it doesn't really make sense for someone who's land-locked to be researching boat-making.

Tribes

Brudvir

  • No education writeup provided

Hrothi

  • The Hrothi, as a people, value the preservation and transmission of knowledge as one of their highest ideals. They believe that our memories as individuals and as a society are one of the few things that can last forever. As a result, the Hrothi train talented scribes who use bright, beautiful inks containing pigmentation made from minerals dug from deep within the ground. These scrolls and manuscripts appear brightly illuminated and serve as a record for both their own people and the rest of the Tribes of Mann. These illuminated manuscripts are then stored in countless libraries and vaults built beneath the ground, designed to preserve the manuscripts in their original state so they can withstand the passage of time.
  • Members of the Hrothi who are looking to further their education can either seek an apprenticeship with one of their local guilds, or can seek out one of the many schools that train people in the ways and crafts of the Hrothi. If one is lucky enough, they may even join a school or university that has access to one of the Great Libraries.

Kypiq

  • The Kypiq prize a great mind and are encouraged from a young age to experiment and observe. They take the practical approach to education and would likely faint if presented with a dusty, Hrothi tome from which to learn.
  • For those with alchemical interests, they are sent to learn among the Kypiq's greatest alchemists at the Kinothian: a school within the North's great forest of giant mushrooms. This establishment has stood for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Closer to home, near the transition point between the forest and the grasslands, lies the Arkyn. It is an institution where both the Neran and Kypiq have gone in order to learn from the greatest Tinkerers and Mechanists. The Arkyn leaves a very distinct impression, built almost like clockwork, with various gears, levers, and cogs. It represents the height of engineering on Elyria.
  • Not all Kypiq find themselves with a career in the science and technology sector, though most could probably talk with confidence on the finer points of either. Those that don't may pursue crafts that aren't overly time consuming or provide a great deal of excitement in a day, such as weaving, trap making, or weapon crafting. These skills may be passed down among any member in the community (not often a family member) or picked up from passing travelers or nearby Neran settlements.

Neran

  • Neran looking to enter a craft or trade have several different routes in which they can do so, often dependent on where they live. Those living in smaller settlements will either learn the family trade through their elders or seek out one of the local tradesmen in hopes of gaining an apprenticeship. Those wishing to join a guild for training can journey to a nearby town to find what they're looking for. Some guilds will only accept already-skilled and/or established members of their craft, while others will accept newcomers and train them from nothing. For those seeking the fastest advancement, larger towns and cities often hold schools or universities to join. This provides not only the opportunity for faster learning, but also an opportunity for further research.
  • All Neran are expected to have at least a passing knowledge of the Virtues, and part of the duty of the Song-priests is to spread this knowledge.

Waerd

  • Knowledge is shared freely among the Waerd, with schools existing in each settlement and made available without charge to the others. The schools themselves range in subjects from infiltration, subterfuge, and disguise, to serviceable trades such as mining, smithing, masonry, and cartography. As a result, The Waerd are considered to have a broad range of knowledge by outsiders and are often hired as tutors or trainers, which they use as an opportunity to gain additional information. Jacks of all trades, masters of none, their breadth of knowledge can make The Waerd useful in almost all capacities.

Dras

  • The Dras, being communal in nature, have large areas dedicated to teaching. Alchemy, philosophy, theology, bardic skills, and crafting schools are among the most common but a Dras settlement will often set aside freely-usable space in the center of town for anyone who wants to speak or engage in scholarly pursuits.
  • There is an importance placed upon the learning of their history. This is considered important, both for the understanding and appreciation of where they are now, and for acquiring the wisdom necessary to prevent history from repeating itself.

Janoa

  • Primarily, Janoan youth receive training and tutelage from their parents. Perceiving children as a reflection of an individual's prowess, at least until adulthood, there exist steep expectations for the next of kin. Parents put in effort to pass on techniques and knowledge through practical lessons, by bringing their children on training hunts or sending them to the local hunting academy. While incredibly rare, there are times in which a child is born not bearing the marks of their parents. These individuals are shunned from engaging in The Hunt and, many times, become gatherers or alchemists.
  • As part of their learning process, many Janoa will find a rival with whom they can practice their skills. Valuing individual prowess and domination, schools or institutions pit student against student for nearly every subject taught, be it herbalism or mathematics. There are some slightly less competitive organizations that exist and operate on an economic level, primarily being the alchemists and merchants who make much of their living off of the excess of hunted materials not used for trophies or adornment.

To'resk

  • Education among the To'resk tends to prioritize diplomacy, trade, and mercantilism above all else, with the lower classes additionally studying farming and aquaculture. As individual and family advancement is valued higher than community development, the To'resk tend to to keep family recipes and knowledge on how to fish, farm, find gold, or even climb the social ladder as closely guarded secrets. As a result, there are few, if any, schools within the wetlands Instead, parents teach their children, passing on recipes that would not be readily shared among the To'resk. To gain skills outside of your current family, your fastest route to success is to marry into a family that does possess the skills you're interested in learning, as information is generously shared through marital families.
  • Consequently, divorce - the breaking of a marriage contract - is extremely frowned upon in To'reshian society and is treated as a sort of social bankruptcy. The breaking of a marriage contract results in a brand by the person who violated the contract. This marks the person as being untrustworthy and less suitable to be married again in the future.

In-game Schools

If your school/academy is not listed, please let me know and I'll get it added. All I ask is that you have a post that can be linked.

  • Arkyn - Kypiq Kingdom (Tinkerers and Mechanists)
  • Kinothian - Kypiq Kingdom (Alchemists)
  • Unseen University - Unknown location (Talents & Magic)

Angelica Server

Luna Server

Selene Server

Oceanus Server

Dev Journals

Questions

  1. Can one school receive multiple grants?
  2. Can one domain give multiple grants to different schools?
  3. Can restrictions be placed on the grants? (i.e. to push the agenda of those giving the grants)
  4. How are schools effected by Tribes, specifically those that are family oriented?
  5. Can a school create tiers of its members, thus restricting access as desired?
  6. How are discoveries shared within the school? Recipes are likely needed to be created. Is it shared because they have access to it, or does everyone learn it upon discovery?
4/9/2018 4:40:53 PM #1

Reserved

4/9/2018 4:40:58 PM #2

Reserved

4/9/2018 5:56:04 PM #3

So I understand the shared knowledge and discovery of a school. But I can not help but wonder if I have a station in a remote building as well, if any discoveries made in private estate, would be forcibly shared with the school. As well, will the school be able to retain the ability to safeguard its discoveries, dispensing the knowledge of them only to trusted individuals? meaning only certain "recipes" to people given certain title or rights. Not explicitly on their ability to learn them, but the level of trust they have earned with the school.


4/9/2018 6:19:02 PM #4

I too am curious if stations will have different settings. Could an academy/guild create a (insert your favorite profession) station and locate it on the streets for anyone to use. Could we mark that specific station as open to the public rather than just the guild? We'd have to maintain it, because like most structures, there will be some maintenance required. From my understand, the current idea is member or nonmember, but I wonder if we'll be able to recreate tiers; thus allowing some people access to certain areas and recipes while restricting others to maybe just the baseline.

I'll add to the list of questions.

4/9/2018 6:26:54 PM #5

Nice write-up!


Alt text - can be left blank

4/11/2018 1:02:44 PM #6

Hi! I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to comment on the topic of Weard settlements, but I'll give it a shot! Anyway, the Weard share knowledge, so would it be possible to create a settlement based entirely on research and sharing knowledge? Since they share everything else, from property to chores in support of the family, I think it would be possible to have a settlement like this! Any thoughts?


Astronomer. Sailor. Desert Admirer. And the only Waerd supporter in CoE?

4/11/2018 2:16:16 PM #7

Posted By Nova_Loyola at 09:02 AM - Wed Apr 11 2018

Hi! I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to comment on the topic of Weard settlements, but I'll give it a shot! Anyway, the Weard share knowledge, so would it be possible to create a settlement based entirely on research and sharing knowledge? Since they share everything else, from property to chores in support of the family, I think it would be possible to have a settlement like this! Any thoughts?

You can build a school or guild for that purpose and just have it be within the settlement.

4/11/2018 2:20:31 PM #8

I think the question of knowledge spread is an interesting one, that seems to have conflicting information out at the moment.

All discoveries are/can be known to members of that school.

Yet...techniques and skills and recipes are three different things.

You learn techniques, but also may need to increase proficiency in them. You learn recipes...do you also need to advance in proficiency with those?

Does a discovery mean everyone who is a member magically, no matter how far from the school, gets a 0 Proficiency knowledge of that recipe or technique? That doesn't seem right. I would think the discoverer gains the actual knowledge, and perhaps a skill book should be created to teach others (who have library access permission) who physically visit the school the basics of the new recipe/technique. This would encourage visits to the school grounds proper, set a more realistic flow of information, and allow compartmentalization through access controls on the library/libraries/archives.

4/11/2018 3:48:10 PM #9

The exact text says "the information is made available". I don't think anyone will suddenly learn if they are far away since it's been said information has to travel. From what we read from the DJ, I believe we would just get the recipe but need to learn the techniques if we want to make it. A novice most likely could go to the school, look up a recipe that was recently discovered but not have the skills to make it.

4/12/2018 1:28:28 PM #10

Added Talqamar to the school list.

And agreed with Deftly on the information is available but not immediately learned by everyone at the school.

> >Posted By Quintero at 09:20 AM - Wed Apr 11 2018 >

Yet...techniques and skills and recipes are three different things.

You learn techniques, but also may need to increase proficiency in them. You learn recipes...do you also need to advance in proficiency with those?

From my understand, there will be a difference in product for someone who just learned a recipe/craft vs one who has been perfecting it for awhile.

4/12/2018 1:37:15 PM #11

>

Posted By Nova_Loyola at 08:02 AM - Wed Apr 11 2018

Hi! I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to comment on the topic of Weard settlements, but I'll give it a shot! Anyway, the Weard share knowledge, so would it be possible to create a settlement based entirely on research and sharing knowledge? Since they share everything else, from property to chores in support of the family, I think it would be possible to have a settlement like this! Any thoughts?

From the original post on Waerd, it appears that is the case and some may already be set up by NPCs. I also take this to mean, any player created school/academy, the NPCs will not expect to have to pay for entrance; which is different then the Soul Chamber post about students paying a tuition for entrance into the school.

Waerd - Knowledge is shared freely among the Waerd, with schools existing in each settlement and made available without charge to the others. The schools themselves range in subjects from infiltration, subterfuge, and disguise, to serviceable trades such as mining, smithing, masonry, and cartography. As a result, The Waerd are considered to have a broad range of knowledge by outsiders and are often hired as tutors or trainers, which they use as an opportunity to gain additional information. Jacks of all trades, masters of none, their breadth of knowledge can make The Waerd useful in almost all capacities.

4/12/2018 2:34:01 PM #12

One of my goals in CoE is to found a military academy, mainly to provide an officer corps for my Duchy but also to provide a staff college for Nirath.

I'm very interested in techniques and how those are taught as well as what tools we will have for long-term teaching - can a school boost sword fighting one day and then the next focus on teaching scribing or various logistics skills or cartography the next.


Coming Soon(tm)

4/12/2018 3:22:54 PM #13

It could be interesting to have travelling scholars. If a traveling scholar arrives in a city, then he will spend some time teaching the stuff he knows and learning trying to learn a few new skills.

A wise baron or count could pay the scholar during the visit, because in the long run skillful citizens can pay more tax.


4/12/2018 4:20:29 PM #14

I really hope to become a travelling potion maker. I'm so excited for the different things in this. I want to go between each school (assuming there is more than one for each skill) and learn all I can to become as skilled as I can.

Thinking about this and the obstacles makes me wonder how hard that life will be. Obviously to become a master you REALLy have to focus on that skill and that skill alone.

But if you are travelling you have to have either fighting skill or hire a caravan of some sort. So in order to make money to travel to improve on your skill/trade, you have to be good enough at your skill to make money to travel.

OR you can get good enough at fighting to travel while neglecting your skills to get to the academy but then you are already behind because you spent your life learning to fight.

lol I can see why the percentages are so low the higher you get. That is a time consuming process. (This isn't a complaint just a thinking aloud XD)


4/12/2018 5:07:11 PM #15

I find the "Ways to Learn" section interesting (and slightly concerning).

Books - I really do hope that they take advantage of books as more than just what is described above. The way it is described seems to paint books as a "starter" form of education when it really shouldn't be treated that way.

There should be books that are representative of all of the tiers all the way up to Master, with amounts of rarity, value, and "learning speed" varying based on the tier.

Note: I am NOT advocating people being able to read a book up till Master (as performing the craft should always be the best way to achieve mastery), but for realism sake there should be Master-tier books to learn from, even if very slowly.

Observation - I have similar feelings with this one as I do with Books. I understand that typically observing is done by an Apprentice and then beyond that the Apprentice would begin to do the craft themselves, however there are situations where you might be observing a Master that is performing a Master-tier task and that should be a valuable observation for anyone who hasn't yet mastered that specific task themselves.

Again, just like with books, observation shouldn't be treated as a "starter" form of education but instead varies in value based on the skill of the person and task being observed compared to the skill of the person observing.

Practice - Obviously this is one where I want to argue that practice is literally the essence of skill improvement; however I understand that this is something that OPCs will be doing a lot so it is a game limitation to prevent it from being a realistic way to gain skill.

Teaching - I am super excited about this one, and no complaints with the way it is being handled. Referring to my above comments about Books and Observation, I would think that they should function as a mirror of teaching but on a smaller scale.

Once Expert - I also think this one is being handled well. In RL, where there are no titles to tell someone what they are in a skill, being able to invent improvements to their craft would be a sign that you are an expert in that craft and are on your way to mastering it. It makes sense that CoE would use expert as a starting point for increased opportunities to discover improvements.

As always, the stated above is just my opinion and some of it may actually be exactly what is planned and I am just being stupidly redundant for no reason. :D